Rod Liddle: I’m identifying as a young, black, trans chihuahua, and the truth can go whistle

FWR never ceases to amaze me but never thought I would see women willing to die on the hill defending the likes of Rod Liddle.

Funny place this.

No, it really isn't.

Babdoc that is where I believe priorities are getting skewed.

I am sure that nobody would really prioritise ridiculing trans ideology over the safety of women and children, but by taking Rod Liddle as an ally that is exactly what you are doing.

The truth is still the truth even if written by a nasty person.
I will take any allies I can get in this fight for truth and women’s rights.
Love him or hate him, Rod has a wide readership and can get the message out there.

Yes, how would we know who to fawn over otherwise

It wouldn't be though, we do love citations here in fwr!!

Jez, I'm not excusing, forgiving or forgetting. I'm appreciating a well written, well placed and timely article. I don't give a toss who wrote it. For the purpose of this forum, it could've been quoted without the author even being referenced.

Well OK. But then you must acknowledge that the reason we are failing to play the ball rather than the man is because the man has picked up the ball and flounced off the pitch with it.

Nope, I simply cannot get past it.

Why should women forgive and forget? Why should an article enabling child abusers be excused?

That's female socialisation talking, let's all overlook the indiscretions of a child abuse apologist who beats up his pregnant girlfriend because he may be able to help us. Fuck that.

The outrage I felt 15 years ago when I read it still stands I'm afraid.

There is no causal link between viewing child porn and abusing children. And even if there were, it would not be sufficient, within the philosophy of our judicial system, to simply assume that an unpleasant penchant for the former presupposes guilt of the latter.
No matter how vile we may consider the sexual predilections of paedophiles, we should not be in the business of putting people in prison for simply looking at things.

Jez, what specifically in the article do you disagree with?

This is a good starting point. I would be very happy to engage with a discussion of RL's argument rather than RL himself.

I would love to see “excellent and valid opinions” of people who are not gender critical. Believe me, I looked for them for a long time before I arrived at my gender critical position. However, I have only seen posts that attempt to emotionally manipulate, derail, or defame (calling us racists, etc). I have yet to see anything from any trans activist that actually stands up to critical scrutiny. The failure by two posters on this thread to engage with the substance of the argument made by Liddel is very evident. The issue here is that the two sides of the GC vs trans argument are separated by their respective attachments to observable reality or subjective feeling. By thought vs emotion. Not by politics.

Fawned over is an interesting choice of phrase, isn't it. I can't recall the last time I saw it used for a group of men who agreed with something a man said. Do trump supporting men "fawn over" him?

Jez, what specifically in the article do you disagree with?

Maybe start there.

Jezebelz

You said this about RL - "praise him on a feminist forum."

Can you please quote the people who "praise him" you are reading here? I've read people saying they agree with some of his comments in the article but I have not see anyone "praise him" , so can you please show me that?

Also you said "fawned over" - can you please quote the words you would classify as "fawned over".

Thanks

I guess you could say the same about all of the homophobes and misogynists in the "TRA movement".

And also those TRAs who post about 'black women, disabled women, poor women, trans women' etc and seem to assume that all GC women are able-bodied, white and well off?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain that's strange, because I've noticed that often the excellent and valid opinions of posters who are not gender critical are rubbished and dismissed on here. And anybody who is gender critical, no matter how odious (Rod Liddle, Katie Hopkins, Posie Parker) are fawned over.

Mn is one of the few places where it still seems to be possible to think critically about an idea on its own merits. The strategy where you pick a team and then agree uncritically with whatever your team members come out with while equally uncritically rubbishing everything said by your opponents leads to some deeply stupid thinking

Interesting debate. My enemies enemy is my friend etc.

To be honest I think the TRAs need to own where their batshittery has led.

It's unfortunate that RL has written some terrible shit prior to this which might mean that people skip reading his articles altogether. However, if anyone sat on the trans fence does get to read it I'm pretty sure it'll help them see the insanity of the trans demands. We all live in glass houses but it doesn't mean we can't effect positive change sometimes.

I love the idea of being "transchihuahua".

Anything that shines a light on this is good.

No it's not. Not when the author is selling women and children down the river.

There are plenty of gender critical journalists out there who are not disgusting misogynists .

I thought by mentioning Fred west I'd make it clear enough, but can't have a conversation on the Internet without someone bringing up Hitler... 🙄

Hitler's views on facebooks 72 genders were well documented, I remember that section at the Nuremberg rally in 1936 where he said "es gibt nur zwei Geschlechter. Man kann nur Mann oder Frau sein"