Janice Turner: "When self-identification trumps biology, men can be women, white can be black and age really will be just a number"

I definitely saw a screenshot of the full letter but part of the letter is reproduced here:

In 2002 in response to the European Court ruling in the case of Christine Goodwin v. the UK that she had, among other rights, the right to marry a male person, Hakeem and 5 others wrote to The Daily Telegraph that such a ruling was: [following is the embedded quotation from the letter]

a victory for fantasy over reality and that our concerns were that the problems and conflicts within the trans-sexually conflicted individual may not be wholly solved by either surgical or legal manoeuvres.

zagria.blogspot.com/2011/04/az-hakeem-19-psychiatrist-psychoanalyst.html#.W-gsz62cbEo

Dudebro’s argument boils down to Gender Dysphoria is a Thing

Floating round, there's a remarkable Letter to the Telegraph (2002?) from a number of psychiatrists from relevant institutions stating that gender dysphoria is a mental health fiction as a discrete entity but is a manifestation of a mental health disorder (just not the one in the ostensible presentation).

Does anyone know the letter I mean? One of the signatories was Dr Az Hakeem (author of the textbook).

@hipsterfun Try this link which should work for you.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-m-identifying-as-a-young-black-trans-chihuahua-and-the-truth-can-go-whistle-tq550nx5f?shareToken=e1e3814c340bf63c86841ab646881e60

Hah! Love that arranfan

Fortunately Jane Clare Jones arrived to save the day

Jane Clare Jones is an absolute shero.

Where have all the women gone
And where are all the gods?
Where's the streetwise Athena to fight the dudebro clods?
Isn't there a skjaldmær upon a fiery steed?
Late at night I toss and I turn
And I dream of what I need
I need a shero
I'm holding out for a shero 'til the end of the night
She's gotta be smart
And she's gotta be fast
And she's gotta be fresh from the fight
I need a shero
I'm holding out for a shero 'til the morning light
She's gotta be sure
And it's gotta be soon
And she's gotta be larger than life!
Larger than life

Somewhere after midnight
In my wildest fantasy
Somewhere just beyond my reach
There's someone reaching back for me
Racing on the thunder, and hitting at deceit
She's a cerebral Valkyrie who sweeps me off my feet

etc...

Deleted but not erased

mobile.twitter.com/DaisyGudmunsen/status/1061538465840590848

Fortunately Jane Clare Jones arrived to save the day:

So much so that the weaselly mansplainer deleted the original tweet.

Dudebro’s argument boils down to Gender Dysphoria is a Thing

India Willoughby went for the same line on This Morning.

But all it means is discomfort with gender. It doesn’t mean - is actually the other sex. It’s a symptom. It’s not an explanation.

We know this about body dysphoria - people understand that people with body dysphoria experience something emotionally that is not grounded in reality. But with gender dysphoria we forget that and decide that someone saying they have GD means they are literally women.

I am sorry for anyone with GD. But a discomfort with your male body - or more likely with what being a male entails in terms of gender behaviour - does not mean anything at all as to your sex.

These people are so credulous. And so hard of thinking.

Saw that take down of the "I identify as right" Guardian dudebro contingent - I've said it before and I'll say it again Jane Clare Jones is an absolute shero.

Last night on Twitter Owen 'some of my best friends are women' Jones praised a fellow Guardian Woke Bro for his "absolutely superb deconstruction of the latest attempt by the Murdoch press to whip up anti-trans resentment"

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1061363232978452480

This "superb deconstruction" (i.e. yet another man telling women what we should be thinking while also spectacularly missing the point) can be seen here:
twitter.com/D_Shariatmadari/status/1061313162627178496

Fortunately Jane Clare Jones arrived to save the day:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1061398914916597760

As far as I can see (courtesy of twitter) the differentiating factor is that transgendered people have existed in different cultures and times whereas trans-race/trans-age hasn’t. Also that transgenderism is associated with gender dysphoria whereas the others don’t have any medical diagnoses attached (although how this squares up with the current prevailing thoughts that gender dysphoria isn’t a prerequisite to being trans, I’m not sure).

One could almost be led to believe that Shon has no rational argument.

Absolutely.

Shon and the brethren don't have a rational argument everyone including them knows it, hence #nodebate

Shon and the brethren don't give two figs about rational argument, they just want total capitulation to middle class male entitled demands.

Shon Faye has rejected an interview on the transageist Dutchman, according to Shon's Tweets. Shon feels trolled. Inviting Shon for a rational debate where Shon can explain why being transgender should be treated differently from being transage is trolling now.

One could almost be led to believe that Shon has no rational argument.

I can only see the first few lines of Liddle.

‘Tony Bark’ is plenty though

Ron Liddle's on the case in today's Sunday Times:
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/i-m-identifying-as-a-young-black-trans-chihuahua-and-the-truth-can-go-whistle-tq550nx5f

Suzanne Moore's article - on Trump but really on fascism, has a good quote that seems relevant here, in understanding the bigger potential picture:

Hannah Arendt described a long time ago the ideal subject of totalitarian rule as “people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction … true and false … no longer exists”.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/08/us-press-corps-trump-journalists-press-conferences?CMP=share_btn_tw

Is it accidental that immutable biological truths are being undermined as mere matters of opinion or personal preference?

The Dutch story is being discussed on LBC in a minute, they seem to be taking it as straight rather than treating it as satire

Janice Turner is pure gold. I took out a Times digital subscription in the spring to follow the Brexit twist and turns. Back then gender criticism and the GRA consultation were barely on my radar. I have had a very steep learning curve since then and Janice's articles have helped enormously. One of the very best journalists in the country.

I'm pretty sure that Challenor senior identified as a small girl whilst abusing a child

It doesn't matter whether or not Challenor senior identified as a six year-old girl as under Stonewall's transgender umbrella, he was a six year-old girl.

Janice has been consistently at the front of the pack. A great journalist. Brave, too. I hate to think what sort of abuse she is receiving.

There is no hate in this article.

Ah, but the word "hate" has been redefined to mean 'anyone saying something I don't like'.

Combining transgenderism and transage isn't unheard of and there are other budding Stefonknees out there

twitter.com/sargesalute/status/1061272894095933440

It’s a great article and the Dutch chap is doing a marvellous thing.

When a court denies it, it will have to rule on why.
And that reasoning applies to any physically immutable characteristic.
Well done sir.

And if the court allows it through i shall identify as a male 90 year old and insist on an absolutely top notch annuity for my pension, because they can’t deny me.