Janice Turner: "When self-identification trumps biology, men can be women, white can be black and age really will be just a number"

Helen Staniland is also contributing to good commentary to Men who should know when to open their ears and close their mouths when embroiled in issues about which they know little :

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1061666161325170688

Also, much hilarity at:

"It's manifestly obvious that sex is a social construction -- a set of discursive categories placed imperfectly over a complex set of variables including visible and invisible traits. I don't even really understand why this is even contentious."

Honestly, he really should try coming out with that at the Llwynypia Working Men's Club. I'm sure they'd all be nodding their heads in agreement.

Who is this fuckwit James Lovelace who thinks that women shouldn't be upset about receiving death threats?

Whereas mine was in spelling.

happens.

Aargh that Dr Matt Lodder thread:
Pregnancy is something that hsppens
Imagine my relief when I realised his doctorate was in Art History.

I've enjoyed JCJ and Glosswitch on this

In which Shariatmadari begins to show some awareness of just how much he doesn't understand about the topic and what terra incognita he blundered into and then seems to shed it again when he recalls his superior understanding and innate reasoning skills:

twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1061598927286403072

That Jane Clare Jones takedown of Shariatmadari is joyous.
It is superb, but my god it's depressing to see how many unthinking journalists the Guardian employs these days.

Strange times when one finds oneself stuck between a Rod and a woke place.

I couldn't agree more @hipsterfun I can't stand most of what Rod Liddle writes, but on this he's spot-on. As for that perennial teenager Owen Jones, I'm one of the many, many on Twitter blocked by him for daring not to agree with something he wrote - in this case about trans matters. It's almost a badge of honour nowadays.

Owen Jones has clearly never really thought through the whole transgender ideology. He spectacularly misses the point every time he posts about what he considers to ne transphobia. He equates trans rights with gay rights. End of. No further though or consideration given at all.

Saying that a man cannot become a woman, or that a white person cannot become a black person; or that a 60 year old cannot become a 20 year old - just because that's how they feel or 'identify' - is not the same, at all, as saying that " if a gay person can marry; then I can marry a toaster". Just ridiculous! I don't get how he cannot see his own logical inconsistencies.

Feminist4. Your daughter seems to be un a very fragile state. Counselling and therapy may well be in order - not just for the re-affirmation of the trans identity that she currently espouses and holds to be true. Such a fragile and precarious state is not healthy in the long run, and is not a good basis for a strong & stable sense of self.

The fact is that nobody here has ever said that trans people"are all rapists" Women have, though, been voicing serious and well founded concerns over the implications of Self ID for women, single sex spaces and services; as well as on the ability to be able to describe and discuss one's lived experience as a woman.

There is a complete lack of logic in the trans position, as well as an inability to engage with genuine debate. All debate is seen as being destructive of the trans person's sense of self. this can never be a sense of self which has real integrity; and that is because it relies on the suppression of speech and the genuine concerns of other people.

Healthy self identity must rest on firm foundations, not on untruths.

Oh, to have the confidence of a mediocre white man, etc.

We all say stupid things online sometimes (well ok I do) but to compose a multiple tweet on a subject about which you clearly know nothing is a level of arrogance that's way out of my league.

Glosswitch's tweeted comments on that were hugely enjoyable (linked upthread).

I can understand feeling so stupid that you delete an entire thread and take to your bed, but to just weed out the bits that make you look bad when you're a journalist and facts are supposed to be your business - that's shameful.

That's the Guardian writer of today for you. Also see "journalism ought to be founded in the principle that trans women are women", according to that sanctimonious American twit of last week's US Guardian rebuke to the Guardian.

That Jane Clare Jones takedown of Shariatmadari is joyous. We all say stupid things online sometimes (well ok I do) but to compose a multiple tweet on a subject about which you clearly know nothing is a level of arrogance that's way out of my league.

But (look away if you don't like spoilers) I stopped laughing when I got to the bit about him deleting some of Jane Clare's tweets. I can understand feeling so stupid that you delete an entire thread and take to your bed, but to just weed out the bits that make you look bad when you're a journalist and facts are supposed to be your business - that's shameful.

It's also very stupid cos now I don't just think the man's an idiot, I feel I can no longer trust anything else he writes.

But I did laugh again when I read his Twitter by-line: Can't get enough of experts (except when the experts are women).

Excellent work there, arranfan !

Thing is Jones, history isn't the only thing being brutal to women what disagree with you and your fellow dudebros, is it?

@OwenJones84: This take is the anti-trans equivalent of "if gay people can married, then why can't people marry goats or toasters?" History will be equally brutal to both takes.

This is not a logically coherent. Neither goats no toasters are human, while men and women irrespective of their sexual orientation are.

On the other hand, humans simply cannot change sex or age, even though there may be variations of their cellular and physiological make-up that may be prototypical for a different sex (e.g. hormone status) or age (e.g. telomer length).

Thanks for no spoilers

Podcasts, yes! The three-hour interview was ace, but YouTube isn’t the ideal platform.

Would make an excellent band name. - I rather fancy it as a podcast :)

What did she say?

I have no wish to diminish the full joy of reading Jane Clare Jones by summarising away her pithy turn of phrase or relentless politeness:

twitter.com/janeclarejones/status/1061398914916597760

The Jane Clare Jones Intervention

Would make an excellent band name.

What did she say?

Lovely thread by gloss witch about the Jane Clare Jones intervention and Janice Turner's piece!

Do male columnists really think female columnists sacrifice themselves on the altar of Having An Opinion About Gender because these silly women just haven't thought it through, what with gender not being a big deal for them and all?
...
"Yeah, I thought I'd just casually volunteer for death threats cos I can't be bothered to work out the difference between gender and sex" said no woman ever.

twitter.com/glosswitch/status/1061542313967656960

Owen jones’ pov:

Owen Jones🌹
@OwenJones84
This take is the anti-trans equivalent of "if gay people can married, then why can't people marry goats or toasters?" History will be equally brutal to both takes.

Thanks, welshbookworm.

Strange times when one finds oneself stuck between a Rod and a woke place.

Janice responds to David 'woefully out of my depth' Shariatmadari:

twitter.com/VictoriaPeckham/status/1061406105010663425