How can I have it all without doing it all?

Really interesting thread. Echos a conversation I had with my friend last night. At the moment me and DH share household and childcare responsibilities relatively equally while both working full time in quite demanding jobs. DH is starting a new job in Jan which , initially, will mean he will be unable to do any nursery drop offs or pick ups... It has some how fallen to me to organise this as it hadn't even occured to him.

It wasn't until he had a conversation with my boss( we currently work at the same place) and he asked him how the new job would impact on his childcare responsibilities that it suddenly dawned on him how unfair he was being. And my DH is pretty enlightened.....just shows you how ingrained this is.

I was in your position about 5 years ago. I took the job, my husband stepped up to cover some of the domestic tasks, and we agreed to pay for as much help as we could.

It has been very hard work at times. It takes a lot of non-emotional clear communication with my DH about who does what at home, and many discussions about what are the really important things for our family. I often have to let my standards slip at home, and there are times when pressures at work and home coincide. Events happen that you don’t anticipate and you need a way of handling them that isn’t just the woman dropping everything. E.g. Kids are ill and we have to make quick decisions about which of us can or should stay home that day.

Now, after gaining the experience, I’m in a better position to demand more flexibility and time with my kids. I feel my negotiating position is far ahead of where I was 5 years ago.

Long working hours + children only works if you have someone to do all of the "wife work". I'm not saying that has to be the wife btw. Just observing that the set up of 1 person working outside of the home and 1 working within the home is probably the ideal. This isn't really do able now though so the jobs of a theoretical SAHP have to be re allocated - either to both parents or to paid help or possibly to extended family.

There's no other way is there? Either fore go the job opportunity or take it and work on other solutions for the family tasks but with your husband. It isn't just down to you.

Wow Julia excellent post, so true. So many men do this.

this thing where he can't cope with the children when you're ill
what he is doing is playing a game of chicken with the children's wellbeing
he 'drops' the children knowing that you have to catch them, because if you don't catch them they will suffer and it will be framed as your fault, not his fault
So what it comes down to is do what I want or the kids will suffer
Emotional blackmail

People tend to learn to cope, when they have to. You’ve coped till now with all the housework and childcare. Do you have some special magical quality that he doesn’t? He can learn to cope as well.

I wish I had someone who’d come and cope for me, to save me the hassle of having to.

Can't cope or won't cope? Sounds like the latter to me. What do you think would happen if you broke a leg badly and had to be in hospital for a month - would he actually just cope or would the kids end up with social services?

Is there an actual reason he can't cope (like a disability)?

However, it sounds like it might be quite stressful for you calling him out and trying to get him to step up like a decent adult would without being asked, something that would possibly be even more stressful when trying to do a new demanding job.
I do sympathise

There was an amazing 'facilitated men' thread here a while ago. It might be worth a read, OP.

How much do you outsource at the moment?

In terms of
Ironing
Household Shopping
Gardening
Window cleaning
House cleaning
Laundry and ironing
Cooking
House maintenance

Wife-work for example
Christmas entertaining
Christmas cards presents
Christmas Prep , tree decorating house etc
Wider family birthday cards & presents
Holiday planning.

So this thing where he can't cope with the children when you're ill
what he is doing is playing a game of chicken with the children's wellbeing
he 'drops' the children knowing that you have to catch them, because if you don't catch them they will suffer and it will be framed as your fault, not his fault

So what it comes down to is do what I want or the kids will suffer
Emotional blackmail

If I do really push him to do something he just gets really stressed. EG if I'm ill and he has the kids all day at the weekend, he gets so stressed that I have to take over the next day and take them out somewhere so that he can then get a rest

Don't accept that. Yes, taking care of small children can be stressful but he is not inherently less capable than you of handling that. Don't infantilise him. Do you think that if, god forbid, you died or were hospitalised or something he would be literally unable to look after his children for a whole weekend? Or even if you went on a trip without him (has this never happened?). Of course he wouldn't. If he had to, he would do it.

He just feels at the moment, perhaps largely subconsciously to give him the benefit of the doubt, that the children are essentially your responsibility and anything he does is 'helping you'. You may also be buying into this model, feeling that ultimately the responsibility is yours and that you are in a position where you are essentially asking for help with your work. This is the 'natural model' as presented to us by society and to resist it will take conscious willpower, but it is very possible.

I only do my fair share of 'wifework' as DH is equally capable of doing household admin and child juggling as I am.

If you want the promotion, go for it and then redistribute the share of tasks

The way you get better at coping is to practise, not just give up. Make sure he gets some.

True - but if he can't cope, he can't cope and I can't change that
Then he has you over a barrel doesn't he
He chooses not to cope and that means you're fucked
you don't have any leverage in the situation

He's not great with the kids at all
He employs the 'feigned incompetence' strategy to get out of doing his fair share

How is he great with the kids if he can't even cope with them for more than a day? What is it exactly that he's not able to do? You aren't genetically predisposed to be able to do wife work, you just learnt how to do things and just get on with it. So can he.

if I do really push him to do something he just gets really stressed. EG if I'm ill and he has the kids all day at the weekend, he gets so stressed that I have to take over the next day and take them out somewhere so that he can then get a rest
How very convenient for him 🙄
Come on he's taking the piss isn't he

Combination of compromise and help: nanny, cleaner, etc. High powered jobs require a high powered full time plus commitment. Everyone has the opportunity to have it all but nobody can take out more than they put in either personally or by sub contracting. Families are teams and teams work together to maximise the teams overall success. Sometimes that means one if the players has to let the other reach goal whilst they defend.