Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

Couldn’t care less.

But, this doesn’t apply to most trans women with a GRC, so it’s not clear how relevant that would be unless you wanted to make laws around obtaining a GRC stricter.

I do not want cocks in my changing rooms, Sam I Am. No matter how many bloody times you ask.

I really don't want to piss on anyone's parade here at all, but the suggestion that because a few Islamic scholars have said that Allah approves of transing, Muslim women should just suck up all those years of being told to have nothing to do with men is over egging the cake a bit.

You’re all avoiding my question now aren’t you? Ok I shall reword it to a transgender woman who is post surgery.

Eh? No, no man is a woman, irrespective of surgery.

I wonder if it's ever occurred to Early to ask Muslim women how they feel about seeing cocks in their changing rooms. I know quite a few, and "absolutely horrified" would be an understatement.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman?

you said you don't want men in the ladies toilets?
how about if I wear a skirt?
how about if I take hormones and grow breasts?
how about if I undergo serious cosmetic surgery on my genitals?
how about if I...??

It's just a no to men in women's single sex spaces from me.

I used to think I was all cool and OK with it, and then I recognised it for what it is, men constantly trying to push women's boundaries

so no, no, no. I do not consent to sharing toilets that are designed to be unisex with men I don't know

melanippe that’s already been explained several times and I’ve also said several times that I don’t agree with practices in those countries - or Islam’s views on homosexuality and their attitudes to woman. I think it’s damaging. However my point was it was the most recent statement on transgender individuals said by someone who can make Islamic rulings.
Just because someone is Muslim, does not mean that they see transwoman as men. Just like they don’t have to believe that they are not men. But stating continuously that transwoman are so damaging for Muslims, imply that all Muslims see them as solely men rather than transwoman, when under Islamic law transgender Was classed as something your born with and they would not see that as a man. As I’ve said many times, individuals see things differently and a Muslim woman (just like any other woman) can make her own decisions.

You’re all avoiding my question now aren’t you? Ok I shall reword it to a transgender woman who is post surgery.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

I don't understand this. Hating your penis and cutting it off doesn't make you less sexist or understand and respect women, does it?

That's interesting, melanippe

Eyes wide shut.

Thanks Melanippe.

how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

A male doesn't ever have a "female" body. It's not possible to change sex.

Sorry to be a crashing bore, but, to go back to the Islamic law thing, while the Grand Ayatollah Khamenei legally recognised transitioning MtF solely within the Twelver branch of Shi'a Islam that is far from uncontroversial. In fact, Iranian Grand Ayatollah Tabrizi (who was also a well respected leader of the same branch of Islam) stated that trangenderism is against the Quran and the law of God because it denies God's sovereign will with regard to the body. Being homosexual is still illegal in Iran, and punishable by death, where sex reassignment surgery and legal recognition of change of sex is ok. This is seen by many LGB groups as an attempt to both "trans the gay away" and a way to impose further control over LGB people. A sort of gay conversion therapy on a countrywide level.

In Egypt it is illegal to be homosexual and transgender. Whatever some university lecturers might have to say about it. In Egypt as well, rape is almost never reported, because it is seen as the woman's fault.

In many countries where being homosexual is punishable by death, by transing is allowed, women are also held responsible if they are raped or sexually assaulted. And by that, I mean legally, not just as in elsewhere where women are just told they're responsible for what men do to them. Which I think raises some difficult questions as well?

Anyway, as you were.

And you wish I’d engage with people? That’s exactly what I’ve been doing. Answering people’s questions and stating my POV. Just because it’s not the same opinion as yours doesn’t make it less valid. That would make you a narcissist.

You just completely contradicted yourself. I said MORE mixed sex, I didn’t say only mixed sex.

Earlywalker Sat 10-Nov-18 09:58:30
I think more unisex provision would be good for everyone.
I think a lot could be solved by more mixed sex.

I wish you would actually engage with people and listen instead of just repeating the same tired litany.

Mixed sex spaces are associated with an increased amount of attacks on women so no, they dont solve anything for women.

What we want is baby changing in every room, and the option of mixed sex or single sex.
Where that is not practical then make the mens mixed sex and leave the women alone.

@Earlywalker Please stop being evasive and just explain, why is that not acceptable to you?

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

A male human cannot have a female body.

Now that the internet has taught me about the extent to which some men fetishize tampons I never want to change one with a male human in the next cubicle.

I noticed no one answered my earlier question... how do you all feel about a fully transitioned transwoman using the woman’s facilities if you knew she was a transwoman? I.e, had a female body

It has been reported, you've just decided not to see things that are inconvenient.

Also, the answer is still "no". No cocks in women's changing rooms, no exceptions based on how the cock owner feels about themselves.

I don't think anyone objects to a mixed sex facility, in addition to single sex.

Job done.

And it's not just about getting naked. If I'm applying make up or drying my hair, it's a fairly intimate exercise. I don't want to do it with men around me. I certainly don't want to do it with men who fetishise women around me. And neither do I want to do it with men who wish they were me, around me.

I think more unisex provision would be good for everyone. Changing facilities are often in the woman’s, DPs had to change the baby in the car before as changing facilities in the woman’s, he also stupidly sent DD into the woman’s on her own when she was only little as didn’t want her to be taken into the men’s (that was a killer argument when I found out though) likewise swimming pools, my ds is only little but I don’t think I’d feel comfortable sending him into the men’s alone once he hits 7 either. So yes I do think more unisex provision is needed.

I also don’t like open plan changing in general, I think a lot of woman aren’t comfortable getting themselves or their children naked in front of a room of strangers - careless of if they have a vagina or not. I’ve always gone into the private rooms at the spa and gym (which is the only place I’ve noticed them. All our swimming pools are mixed with cubicals)

I think a lot could be solved by more mixed sex. And the erasure of open plan. I think considering the majority of changing and all of female toilets are behind closed cubicals, I support the inclusion of trans people in these facilities. I understand the concern in open plan facilities but as of yet a trans person waving their dick in one hasn’t been reported and I would support a campaign to include at least one private space within these which I find hard to understand why you’re saying some places don’t have these.

No ifs or buts or whatabout if we’s. Just no. No, no,no. I dont care if men are offended or upset by it. The answer is no. Stay out. All of you.

This.

You're clutching at straws, Early, and I think you know it.

She either does, or she's in deep denial.

I think a combination of single sex spaces with some family changing areas would be ideal.

(Obviously the supermarket, the pub, etc are unisex spaces! The pub loos though, no.)