Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

anything that can be twisted or turned is hounded on.

Like you twisted my words and then said that it was my fault and you didn't parse the sentence correctly because I didn't use a "vital" comma. Very disingenuous.

Another teensy point. A person wishing to gain a GRC must show that they have "lived in their chosen gender" whatever the fuck that means for at least two years. Therefore people who wish to gain a GRC must use the facilities set aside for the opposite sex for two years before they gain a GRC.

Not only that, but the moment a person decides they wish to transition to a different sex, they are classed as transgender for the purposes of the EA. Hence us already having de facto self ID in this country.

Moreover, individuals do not have any right to single sex spaces, organisations have the right to exclude people from certain places based on protected characteristics.

I realise that these facts are well known by most, but I thought it might be useful to have them altogether in a single post at this point.

Unlike transwomen, some disabled people literally can't use any toilets other than the ones specifically designated for them, so why is it OK to push them to the bottom of the priority list? Seems like the priority list goes as follows - transwomen, men who are not all predatory arseholes please note this is very important, transmen maybe, women, disabled people of either sex.

Which is an interesting position to take in multiple ways.

What’s the key reason you would not want be in the same toilet as a trans person?

Not trans person. Transwoman.

Because they are male. Same reason I wouldn’t want to share a toilet with a man I didn’t know. For reasons of privacy, dignity and safety.

In addition, the purpose of female toilets is to allow females to see to their needs. They do not exist to validate identities. I do not consent that my presence becomes part of the validation of someone’s womanly identity. And that’s the mildest suggestion of what might actually be going on.

Yes, I've noticed this. Early is quite happy to dismiss women, Muslims, people with disabilities and focus everything on the reactions of transwomen. Even her transman friend doesn't seem to be a priority.

YY. Male feelings are everything.

You haven't made a coherent case at all, you only see things from the POV of other people, and you don't listen to women who explain the problems with making women only spaces mixed sex.
You've repeatedly demonstrated you don't understand the law or how it is applied.
When people try to get a straight answer from you, you throw up your hands and disengage.

I understand the dictionary perfectly well. I know what ‘denotes’ means.

You completely misunderstood the wording and then tried to use it as a gotcha. You were 100% mistaken. As others also pointed out. But happy not to derail the thread with this.

It's breathtaking. Early, you, consistently, are viewing everything through the eyes of men. Every time.

Yes, I've noticed this. Early is quite happy to dismiss women, Muslims, people with disabilities and focus everything on the reactions of transwomen. Even her transman friend doesn't seem to be a priority.

I’ve had to use disabled loos before with the buggy.

If you think this thread is harsh, I suggest you don’t mention that elsewhere on MN. I think you would rightly be given a very tough time.

Using a pushchair is not the same as having a disability.

I just can’t be bothered anymore. Everyone just picks things apart. The actual points I make, people pretend not to see and don’t comment on but anything that can be twisted or turned is hounded on.

I thought I’d try and be as open as possible but it’s clearly no point.

Let’s just settle this now, I’m just a woman hating, man loving TRA. That’s the only reason one could be trans inclusive.

As you were, back to the echo chamber.

The disconnect is extraordinary.

Mmm.

Say I own a pub and a man in a dress used the ladies, and a woman complains. I have no earthly way of knowing if that man has a GRC or if he doesn’t. If he doesn’t, I can tell him to stop using the ladies. If he does, and I insist that he doesn’t use the ladies, I’m liable to end up in court charged with unlawful discrimination.

So what do I do? I let the man use the ladies of course.

I think pushchairs that can’t fit in toilets is an adequate reason to use disabled.

You may think so but the law says otherwise. Disabled facilities of any kind exist for the use of people with disabilities, not as some kind of overflow for the able-bodied facilities. (Forgive the unintentional puns).

Once again, you are suggesting that services disabled people fought long and hard for should be repurposed to accommodate people who do not actually need them.

You are all arguing that you don’t know if you don’t know they have a GRC, basically saying the law means nothing as everyone will break it anyway. If that’s the case - what do you want? If any law implemented is so easily disregarded in your eyes, what do you want to happen?

A third mixed sex space. You said a few pages back that you supported that.

That poster gave a situation that was only different to a usual situation as the cubicle was open, so the only difference being that a transwoman may see her pee.

By that token, the poster would be happy if the transwoman turned their back!

What don't you understand about the word privacy?

I'd be absolutely fine sharing toilets with a transman, who is a trans person. Interesting how you keep defaulting to the idea that "trans person" means "transwoman".

Also, your level of coherency is dropping quite rapidly, as is your SPAG. Just so you're aware.

Again I don’t believe a transwomen neccesarily cares if your peeing behind a pushchair or that she’s necessarily looking at you

It's breathtaking. Early, you, consistently, are viewing everything through the eyes of men. Every time.

The disconnect is extraordinary.

What’s the key reason you would not want be in the same toilet as a trans person? That poster gave a situation that was only different to a usual situation as the cubicle was open, so the only difference being that a transwoman may see her pee. So obviously I’ve stated they are probably don’t care enough to look anyway.
What’s the reason you cannot bare to share hand washing facilities with a transwoman?

Again I don’t believe a transwomen neccesarily cares if your peeing behind a pushchair or that she’s necessarily looking at you

Why is it so important what the transwoman thinks? What if the woman is just uncomfortable in that situation?

Again I don’t believe a transwomen neccesarily cares if your peeing behind a pushchair or that she’s necessarily looking at you but if it’s an issue for you, I think pushchairs that can’t fit in toilets is an adequate reason to use disabled.

Interesting focus, there. Why is it whether the transwoman cares that's central? What about the fact that the woman cares - why is that your secondary thought?

I understand the dictionary perfectly well. I know what ‘denotes’ means.

Pushchairs in toilets is the issue you have, perhaps campaign for that? I’ve had to use disabled loos before with the buggy. Again I don’t believe a transwomen neccesarily cares if your peeing behind a pushchair or that she’s necessarily looking at you but if it’s an issue for you, I think pushchairs that can’t fit in toilets is an adequate reason to use disabled.

Transpeople cannot I use the toilets currently without a GRC as legally their not recognised as that sex. You are all arguing that you don’t know if you don’t know they have a GRC, basically saying the law means nothing as everyone will break it anyway. If that’s the case - what do you want? If any law implemented is so easily disregarded in your eyes, what do you want to happen?

This is from a transwoman who has a GRC.
Whose response to women on an Internet forum who disagree with them, was to threaten to call the police, or have women prosecuted.

The sense of entitlement and resorting to male socialisation is chilling.

Yes, I do not want men, that is those with penis's who have no intention, or reason medically, of changing gender in OUR female spaces. I fear men as predators, and when I strip off in the communal female changing room of the health club, or are even just having a pee, I do not want them around!

Yes, hypocritically, I DID use the female toilets before I completed transition,

However, trans people have made it clear they would like to be called transwoman.

Earlywalker - "transwoman" is actually considered to be an offensive term by TRAs. It has to be written "trans woman."

Maybe this is a minor nitpick but I think it gets at something deeper. You're imagining a world where the accommodations needed to make trans people happy are slight and reasonable, where it's easy to tell the difference between a legitimate trans person and a predator, and where the police take sexual assaults and sexual violations of women seriously (I had to laugh at your statement that the police would investigate if someone was flashed - where do you live, to believe that?) and in that world, we're all being quite mean to be so concerned about trans issues, it hardly affects us at all.

But in the real world, a lot of TRAs make extremely unreasonable demands and threaten violence if anyone raises concerns, an increasingly large number of men identify as trans because they are opportunistic sexual predators while trans ideology is opposed to the gatekeeping that might prevent this, and the police don't give a shit about women's safety. So in the real world there really is a cause for concern.

It seems like you keep trying to imagine this very convenient hypothetical world because you can see that these concerns matter, but you think that there's a conflict between being concerned about women's safety and caring about your friend. TRA propaganda has been very successful at convincing everyone that if you care about and want to protect women, then you hate and are opposed to trans people. But it's not the case.

Also basing it partly on common sense that cubicals are pretty closed off and what you see outside of a cubical, is what you see standing outside of a toilet enterance and you

Last week I had two kids in a double buggy - I couldn’t getcthat buggy into the cube and there’s no way I’d lock them outside - so I just went with the door open in the end cubicle

I can do that safely in a women only toilet.

Tell me how I can do that safely in a mixed sex loo? I can’t. So there are no toilets I can safely use when I’m out doing the weekly shop. So what do I do? Wear a nappy or just stay indoors?

in my experience, the ones who aren't tend to understand why some spaces are segregated by sex and are happy for that situation to continue.

YY. AFAIAC the ones who want in are the ones I am wary of. The ones who can’t accept that women do not consent.