Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

What I’m saying is that if a Muslim woman were to look into it, as she was unsure if she was breaking her faith if there’s a transwoman in the toilet, she would find that lots of people in authority within the Muslim community do not see transgender people as the sex they were born with.

Would you also be advising Methodists to check what the Pope says? Generally religion doesn't work that way. See Northern Ireland, Spanish Inquisition, England Civil War, Henry VIII etc. etc.

But to be perfectly honest I don’t support the majority of Muslim laws that woman are forced to follow

Me neither. However, I don't understand why I can't be a catholic priest because of religious exceptions to the Equalities law, but a Muslim woman can't have single sex spaces on the basis of exceptions that exist (religion, sex), apparently because this is discrimination on the basis of gender reassignment.

With no test cases and many organisations (schools, LAs, charities) following advice given by Stonewall, this is the current status quo. We have already moved beyond legislation in the 2004 EA, legally or not.

Isn’t that exactly what you are all doing? Or are you all Muslims? The hypocracy.
Is it REALLY beyond your understanding that women from Muslim families post on here?? Why do you think that everyone is Anglo??
And it's not ABOUT what Sharia law says ffs or what YOU think Muslim women need. Fwiw there is a strong tradition of sisterhood in middle eastern countries that has nothing much to do with Islam anyway. It's about comfort, privacy and solidarity. And being able to talk away from men's opinions.

All women have the right to have female only spaces.

I don’t want anyone forced out of public life. I think if they would have that much of an issue, using a disabled toilet could well be the answer.
What I’m saying is that if a Muslim woman were to look into it, as she was unsure if she was breaking her faith if there’s a transwoman in the toilet, she would find that lots of people in authority within the Muslim community do not see transgender people as the sex they were born with.
She is entitled to hold whatever personal view she wishes, everyone is. She’s allowed to not be happy about it and choose not too, but in terms of religion - there is lots of evidence that sharing a toilet with a transwoman will not see her punishable within Islam.

It's truly desperate.

By the Islamic statement

There is no such creature as an "Islamic statement". There are fatwas, which are judgements but they are judgements and not legally binding or universal in any way, shape or form.

So, your solution to 'liberating' Muslim women from rules which you think oppress them is to make wider society even more difficult for them to participate in.

I really don't think you are getting this women's liberation thing...

I’m presuming you all do, since you can’t bear the thought of them being in the same toilet as a transwoman?

No I don't. But I don't support forcing these women out of public life. Which is what you support.

Are you aware of Ijma?

No, but I am not not shocked to learn from wikipedia that there is much disagreement about its relevance.

I can't think of any major world religion that agrees on one set of doctrinal teachings.

Can you answer my question? Do you think it's progressive to outlaw homosexuality and force gay people to transition? Because your support for Iranian laws implies that you do.

No of course I don’t. But to be perfectly honest I don’t support the majority of Muslim laws that woman are forced to follow. Having to cover hair and not being allowed to be alone with men either. I’m presuming you all do, since you can’t bear the thought of them being in the same toilet as a transwoman?

Did you miss the bit about there being no central authority for Islam?

Are you aware of Ijma?

EarlyWalker, there are a number of different 'schools' in Islam, besides the Sunni/Shia distinction, and rulings can vary from Imam to Imam.

It's not like Catholicism which has the Magisterium which is able to definitively say what all of Catholic Doctrine is.

So essentially what you're saying to Muslim women who have a problem with being alone with a man who thinks he is a woman is "Don't worry, I found a random who thinks it's fine." It doesn't hold any water at all. Given that quite a few Muslim women would not be happy to shake a man's hand, why would you think they would be cool being in a sex-segregated space with them?

Earlywalker

Can you answer my question? Do you think it's progressive to outlaw homosexuality and force gay people to transition? Because your support for Iranian laws implies that you do.

The law was passed through by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar university, which is the oldest university and known as ‘Sunni Muslims most prestigious university.’

Again, not an expert on muslim law, but I suspect the world would be a lot more peaceful if things were that simple.

Yes, the Williams Institute are a think tank focused on gender issues, as I said. So... TRAs, although I didn’t use the word.

And the analysis in the study is what I described it to be. That study would not get past peer review in any normal academic field.

I just don't think their definition of a man who is now a woman extends to trans women who haven't had reconstructive surgery.

Indeed. Don't expect Earlywalker to grasp that though.

Did you miss the bit about there being no central authority for Islam?

By the Islamic statement that people are born transgender, transwoman are not seen as men in Islam.

I just don't think their definition of a man who is now a woman extends to trans women who haven't had reconstructive surgery.

The law was passed through by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar university, which is the oldest university and known as ‘Sunni Muslims most prestigious university.’

An Islamic law was passed, but that law means nothing?

An Islamic law was passed in Iran, where homosexuality is illegal and is punishable by imprisonment or death. Is that really the 'progressive' example you want to use?

I know nothing about Islamic Law, but am pretty sure that none of them were drawn up with Phillip Bunce in mind.

Oh right, so let me get this straight. An Islamic law was passed, but that law means nothing?

Maybe start here and come back when you understand: www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z373wmn

EarlyWalker, I don't know if you're aware, but a GC feminist visited a mosque and talked to a group of Muslim women about the issue, and they were uniformly unhappy about all this. There's a thread in Philosophy/Religion that mentions it and the Muslim women are not at all in favour.

I know you probably think you're giving as good as you get, but we're not being hypocrites by wanting to make sure that all women's rights are protected and that actual women are considered before the needs of men who believe they are women. That's pretty basic non-hypocrisy for a feminist.

R.e the article, of course I checked my sources. I know the deal on mumsnet - anything you don’t agree with was automatically written by TRas. Unfortunately it was not.

Study was conducted by Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law. Not TRA’s.

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/mission/

“To determine whether a relationship exists between nondiscrimination laws and crime, Hasenbush, a law and policy fellow at the Williams Institute, zeroed in on Massachusetts, where at the time of the study some localities had transgender-inclusive public accommodation laws and others did not. She and her team compared cities and towns with similar characteristics that had such laws to those that did not. They then examined police reports of assault and privacy violations in these localities both before and after the laws came into effect.”