Great blog about being a trans inclusive feminist

Datun quite. Earlywalker is against self ID, yet refutes all the arguments as to why self ID is such a dangerous idea.

Earlywalker Please can you tell us why you disagree with the concept of self ID?

However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated.

This is just wrong. I'm sorry, I can see you're irritated that we're not getting your point, but just because you've found something you think is very broadly relevant to the whole of Islam, doesn't mean you can clap your hands together and dismiss the issue of certain religious women being excluded from 'gender inclusive' spaces.

FloralBunting

I know. It's inconsistency that's frustrating.

Datun, yes, that's what I'm not getting. It's "I agree with you. But you're worried about nothing, it'll be fine."

They haven’t. Perhaps universal yes, no one group universally agrees with anything

So they have then. Thanks for acknowledging!

However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated.

Can't you see that this is a bit like giving Arlene Foster religious advice from the Pope?

Earlywalker

You seem to be agreeing with arguments A, B, and C, but not conclusion D.

You know that many, actually most, men identifying as women are attracted to women and retain their penis. According to Blanchards typology, this makes them AGP. Which is a fetish, fetishising women and their biology.

You don't agree with self ID. Which will allow all these people access to women.

But it's not self ID that does that, it's equality law, being misrepresented.

And in any event, most organisations are now adopting a policy of self ID. The Labour Party, the NSPCC, girl guides, the Scottish government, youth hostelling association, etc.

So this is arguments A, B and C.

And the conclusion, D is that the trans-ideology is allowing predators access to women and children on an unprecedented level. And yet you disagree with that?

A lot of trans people don’t agree with self ID

Including Debbie Hayton and Miranda Yardley and some trans posters on MN. You seem to think that people on FWR have a problem with all transpeople.

Some organisations are taking it on board but we cannot tell individual organisations what to do.

I think I can certainly campaign for change if governmental organisations, political parties, schools or national charities are expressing views on gender that are harmful to women, and that is what I am doing.

Your assertions about universal Islamic acceptance of MTFs in female spaces have been thoroughly refuted

They haven’t. Perhaps universal yes, no one group universally agrees with anything. However the only laws and guidance in place for Islam, says exactly what I’ve stated. The woman’s personal feelings are seperate.

Ereshkigal the only Islamic views I've heard on MTFs in female only spaces is that they can be allowed in such spaces, but only after they have had genital surgery. It's non negotiable.

Ereshkigal I know! Isn’t freedom of speech a wonderful thing? It’s hard to stay away when you watch a bunch of vultures completely twist your words to invalide arguments that you spent time writing. I’m sure you’d feel the same.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale did you miss everything else? Or just read one sentence?

prawn I never implied or said that most transwoman are homosexual males - that was someone making up a narrative in their head. I’m well aware that there are a large number that identify as lesbians.

merrymouse from the trans community I would say it is just extremists pushing for full inclusivity. A lot of trans people don’t agree with self ID. Some organisations are taking it on board but we cannot tell individual organisations what to do. Self ID is not currently law, These organisations need to understand that and the consultation probably helped to make them aware. The council situation particularly upset me, not just because of the self ID to join a rugby team but I can imagine little girls who want to play rugby have to pretend to be a boy.

calling transwoman men is just biology

Yes you’re right, biologically they are men. However, trans people have made it clear they would like to be called transwoman. By deliberately ignoring this fact, it is disrespectful. I’m of mixed heritage, we’ve been saying for years that the term ‘half-caste’ is offensive and makes us uncomfortable, despite it being everyday language in the past. If people continue to call me this after being told that it is disrespectful, I see that as either racism or a complete disregard for my feelings. Neither of which is appreciated or necessary imo.

Agree with you on what? That Muslim women really need to just keep looking for Imam who will say it's ok to be alone with a non close family member male? Because Iran allows transsexuals but not gays?

I'm honestly trying to understand your broader position. You don't agree with self ID, you think there should be certain restrictions in sport and prisons. But generally you think there's too much fuss been made about the consequences of any changes and we're essentially just mean women here, and hopefully it's going to be ok.

I may well be unintelligent, but I'm not really being convinced by the general 'Pollyanna' approach.

Your assertions about universal Islamic acceptance of MTFs in female spaces have been thoroughly refuted.

Where next?

Just popped back

😁 you can't stay away!

You are all absolutely free to disagree with me, just as many people here do but DO NOT twist my words.

I don't think I am twisting your words and I agree with you on some points. However you haven't explained why you think only extremists support self ID.

Just today the Scottish parliament has adopted policies in schools that very much support defining people by their gender and ignoring the impact of biological sex.

Earlywalker, you seem to be under the misapprehension that all transwomen are homosexual males. I suggest you go away and educate yourself.

Or Earlywalker could check this out:

The majority of men who identify as women appear to be sexually attracted to women. A survey of roughly 3000 trans women showed that only 23% of them identified as heterosexual, with 31% as bisexual, 29% as lesbian, 7% as asexual, and 7% identifying as "queer". 2% checked "other".

Those figures, from Wikipedia suggest that fewer than a quarter are exclusively attracted to men, as compared to 67% who are attracted to women, though not necessarily exclusively.

Given that the overwhelming majority of men who identify as women retain their penis there's no wonder women don't want them in sex segregated spaces.

Just popped back to see if the gaslighting and manipulation of my words had begun yet in my absence, glad to see it’s well underway.

I’m sure deep down you’re all very intelligent woman and not deliberately being obtuse but oh my, I think a reading class is in order.

You are all absolutely free to disagree with me, just as many people here do but DO NOT twist my words, take things out of context, pick on one statement from something I have provided many sources and information about and twist me to be an idiot or similar. It is uncalled for and makes you appear either unintelligent or simply manipulative. I’m sure even people here with opposing views to me would agree with that also - although they wouldn’t admit it.

Earlywalker also seems to be under the mistaken impression that because they have worked with some Muslim women in the UK they are knowledgeable about Islam.

There's a difference between expressing an opinion and passing ignorance off as fact.

The idea that women are afraid of sexual advances from lesbians in spaces like changing rooms is just nonsense. Lesbians are not a threat to women and the idea that they are is just ridiculous and offensive.

It’s MEN we exclude.

Oh and Earlywalker, you seem to be under the misapprehension that all transwomen are homosexual males. I suggest you go away and educate yourself. Alternatively you could venture into what passes as a lesbian space nowadays, you’ll find plenty of heterosexual transwomen lesbians There. That’s why myself and a lot of other homosexual female lesbians don’t go to them any more.

EarlyWalker, you won't read this cos you're off, but I make much of the fact that Genderism is a religion trying to assert the right of certain adeherents to have their feelings override the rights to privacy, dignity and safety of women.

When the issue is women's rights, why do you think the Genderist religious feelings of people who aren't women are going to have more relevance?

Earlywalker

Transwomen are men though, otherwise they wouldn’t be trans women.

I’d expect my partner to be interested in my body, and she is a lesbian. I might even secretly wish that really fit woman changing at the other bench might look me over, while being careful not to look at her in case she thought I was looking her over. but I could have a degree of certainty that she wouldn’t try to sexually assault me. In fact, I’ve been in many lesbian spaces and groups over the years, including sharing sleeping facilities with other women and I’ve never been made to feel uncomfortable in any way by their behaviour, or indeed acted in a way myself that might cause discomfort in anybody else. Honestly, drop the women should fear other women bullshit, it’s not going to wash. If women were so afraid of each other we wouldn’t be battling to save our female only spaces, would we? You clearly know nothing about lesbians, or indeed lesbian spaces if you think we’re ogling each other’s body’s all the time. You’re either very ignorant, or you’re just trying to stir the pot. I don’t much care which, but I’m not going to have you come on here spouting about things of which you clearly know f all, and coming out with offensive homophobic bullshit without challenging it.

PS. The women at my local mosque were very interested, and very worried when I gave them a stack of FPFW leaflets and postcards, and no, I doubt they needed a man to guide their opinion.

The law was passed through by scholars at Egypt’s Al-Azhar university, which is the oldest university and known as ‘Sunni Muslims most prestigious university.’

Oh, for heaven's sake. Al Azhar is a university, it is not parliament. Its faculty have no authority to "pass" laws.

An Islamic law was passed

There is no such thing as an "Islamic law".

Earlywalker, also stop insisting people should use the disabled loos. They are there for the benefit of people with disabilities who can't use the others, not as some sort of catchall for anyone and everyone.