'I'm not meant to be a bloke': Woman who changed gender to become man called Lee says sex swap was a huge mistake

and Grasspigeons yes I think that is very concerning too. Unfortunately there are a lot of vulnerable adults out there who would be much better off with talking therapy rather than surgical.

But I think there are rules on age for those surgeries. Whereas the trans treatments and surgeries are done to underage children who are not adult and there are even greater consequences . As not adult they can be though of as not giving proper informed consent

recent comment by clinicians in BMJ:

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

Thanks, CrashBank!
So, from that paper, these were their 15 'variables considered to indicate psychosocial/psychological vulnerability':
(1) a prior outpatient assessment (unrelated to gender identity issues per se);
(2) a prior trial of outpatient therapy (unrelated to gender identity issues per se);
(3) psychiatric day treatment;
(4) prior inpatient admission;
(5) prior (or current) trial of psychopharmacologic medication;
(6) having dropped out of high school;
(7) an individualized educational plan for school-related problems;
(8) suicidal ideation;
(9) self-harm behavior;
(10) suicide attempt(s);
(11) a history of physical abuse;
(12) a history of sexual abuse;
(13) family involvement with a child protection agency;
(14) placement in residential treatment and/or homelessness; and
(15) a prior DSM diagnosis (not including GID).

Of note, two-thirds of the youth were gay (as in, same-natal-sex attracted).

No clinical control group - the authors point this out, and suggest that the appropriate control would be 'youth referred for
other clinical reasons to an academic health science center' rather than a random healthy sample.

Its is absolutely across the board and seen within professionals, volunteers, advocacy groups

from a current thread:
my comment:
I think that some adults can become very invested in (often unresolved) issues that they relate to personally. It happens a lot in situations where there are children & vulnerable adults and however well meaning they often lack the ability to critically reflect and centre the needs of the people they should be supporting.

LangCleg's
Yes. Across the board: not just about trans issues.

Another fundamental reason why we have safeguarding. It's to protect from the well-meaning but harmful as much as it is to protect from the deliberately malign.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3377721-Joss-Prior-on-Posie-Parker-feminism-Mumsnet-FWR-boards-etc?pg=6

describe conditions that are considered under the terms 'psychosocial and psychological vulnerability'.

Look how differently these two conditions are written about:

1. Gender Dysphoria
   affirmingly, sugarcoating and setting up false expectations of eg that you can achieve ‘functioning’ opposite-sex genitalia produced by surgery: www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

2. Body Dysmorphia Disorder
   Written about Medically, dispassionately, and sympathetically while being clearly of the view that if the patient can’t accept physical reality of their body then they need professional mental health help- no suggestions of eg having permanent cosmetic drugs or surgery to affirm the anxiety disorder that is distressing the patient: www.nhs.uk/conditions/body-dysmorphia/

CrashBank

Thank you.

ARosebyAnyOtherNameChange & Datun - here's a PDF of the full paper.

There's evidence that the GNRH agonists themselves (what TRAs call "blockers") can cause depression and poor mental health, which is one of the reasons why giving them to kids who're already struggling with those issues isn't a great idea. There's a fair bit of information on the side effects of Lupron specifically online for anyone who cares to look, based on the experiences of the adults to whom it was prescribed for its original purpose. Lots of physical side effects too.

I can only access the abstract, sorry

Just to also point out that the prescribing information for blockers notes that they should NOT be prescribed to anyone with a mental health condition (anxiety, depression etc.)

So there you go.

It would help me, enormously, if someone could describe conditions that are considered under the terms 'psychosocial and psychological vulnerability'.

did also find a paper saying 'The findings supported the clinical impression that a large percentage of adolescents referred for gender dysphoria have a substantial co-occurring history of psychosocial and psychological vulnerability'

Just to also point out that the prescribing information for blockers notes that they should NOT be prescribed to anyone with a mental health condition (anxiety, depression etc.)

Hence why the push to change the standard of care is so strong

ARosebyAnyOtherNameChange

It's because Stephanie gets hundreds of emails a week from worried parents of children identifying as trans. I'm guessing she is drawing her conclusions from their testimony.

In terms of expertise, since there is no test for gender dysphoria, or indeed transgenderism, I'm not sure who would be considered experts.

Certainly the people who run Mermaids, GIRES, etc, have no medical qualification.

It would be so much easier if there was a test. Instead of subjective assertion.

At the moment, you have, quite evidently, people who are merely gender non conforming been told they are trans. Plus, of course, cross dressing fetishists claiming the same.

Stonewall including the world and his wife under the trans umbrella has a lot to answer for.

In the interests of accuracy, Datun, I can only find this quote from Stephanie Davis Arai:
'A PSHE teacher and Head of Year at a large comprehensive told me that in her school the kids who identify as ‘trans’ are, without exception, either lesbian, autism spectrum, have mental health problems or have suffered sexual abuse.'

I'm not sure SDA herself sees that many trans children or has expertise in autism etc.

I did also find a paper saying 'The findings supported the clinical impression that a large percentage of adolescents referred for gender dysphoria have a substantial co-occurring history of psychosocial and psychological vulnerability' (sample: 50 adolescents assessed for GID, who turned out to have an average of 6 out of 15 'vulnerability factors' considered).

I can't access the whole paper to see exactly what the 'vulnerability factors' were, or how this compares to a random sample of adolescents.

Yes, yes, AngryAttackKittens ( p 4 at 08:54:06)

but there are a lot of medical treatments that are dependent on the patent wanting them with little or no checks

Really??? Like what? Because I cannot think of any.

I'm not talking about your job, Bespin. I'm talking about you opining on here about women with gender dysphoria.

If you are the fetish variety of transwomen, your opinion on female anatomy should preclude you from having an opinion.

If you are if the gender dysphoria variety, it's still difficult to give your opinion any kind of neutrality. Your craving for female anatomy, would skew your opinion of a women's gender dysphoria, to an impossibly biased degree. How could it not?

Datun I will be over here quietly doing my job helping the people that need helping if it's ok with you. I am very mindful of the issues that I present and will often highlight them when I feel that I would not be able to work with someone due to them. I would expect any professional to do the same for a number of reasons in relation to trauma.

Related to this, males of either the dysphoria having variety or the fetish having variety are absolutely not the right people to be providing guidance to women and girls who find themselves in that situation

100% this AAKittens and Datun.

Nor are many male doctors it seems.

And yes, that fetishists are able to counsel anyone or make policy is abhorrent. But of course one can say that again, the men pushing for this are the very ones women need to worry about.

And of course transmen, recruiting allies to rejecting their bodies and bolstering their coping strategies. Like pro-ANA. Not objective.

This is all abusive, some intentionally and consciously so and some not. Still bad for women.

Yep. It's not only not helpful, it's actively unhelpful.

Related to this, males of either the dysphoria having variety or the fetish having variety are absolutely not the right people to be providing guidance to women and girls who find themselves in that situation

I mean, can you imagine a man who fetishises women's biology having anything to do with a woman who is disgusted by hers due to sexual abuse.

Or, a man who so rejects his male anatomy, he believes that female anatomy is the natural, and only, option.

Which probably accounts for the disconnect most women feel when Bespin speaks about this.

I think there are other surgeries that are based on feeling. My cousin was sexually abused. Obviously she has lots of mental health issues and whilst I see some women might wish to become men to avoid rape, she focused on making her body more pleasing to abusers. She has had a lot of breast surgery as a result. Breast implants are sold as some life affirming thing if you lack confidence. They come with very few mental health checks and many sugeons have no scruples, offer no counselling and actually push women to go larger than they ask for so the end result causes physical pain and discomfort. I don't think they fully explain how often these things need replacing and at the end you still have mental health issues from the abuse.
I think very thorough counselling that challenges the concept of being in the wrong body not just for trans but other surgeries is needed. I'm obviously not talking about reconstruction after an accident or cancer but if an otherwise healthy individual wants to change their body via surgery it shouldn't start with the premises that's it's always right. I know after proper support for some people it will be right and that's fine. But my cousin has had so many unnecessary surgeries and what made her life better was a proper diagnosis and treatment for post traumatic stress.

Related to this, males of either the dysphoria having variety or the fetish having variety are absolutely not the right people to be providing guidance to women and girls who find themselves in that situation

God no.