Mayor Anderson again

GC women are constantly accused of being fascists and Nazis.

I couldn't load the link earlier, and I somewhat foolishly misunderstood the OPs comments about uppity women and assumed (this being FWR) that those quotes were comparing GC feminists to fascists- not about actual fascists.

There is a huge difference between calling for counter protests against a group of masked young men marching with flags and the kind of 'protest' which has targeted GC feminists.

I apologise that my PP criticises Mr Anderson (this time).

I do however agree strongly that: If you only support free speech when it’s something that you agree with, that’s not a rule, it’s special pleading. We should let the Nazis speak, so they can show up their foolishness.

Bowchicawowow. I know someone who supports Tommy Robinson.

A really rough upbringing, including being prostituted out by her mother. Her stepdad believed her and took her to the police, but they would not listen. He had no alternative but to leave, leaving her behind to more abuse, and a lifetime of minimum wage jobs.

She has found the Rotherham and other sex scandals very triggering. These are girls who are the same age as she was.

Oddly she does not believe that politicians like Mayor Anderson, the police etc have any interest in protecting her or young girls in the position she was in. And after the SelfID bollocks I am inclined to agree. (Only one MP has spoken up - what is that about.) She thinks someone like Robinson speaks for her. I think she is mislead. However I really don't think the solution is to deny the debate. Yes some things said may be truly unsavory, but they need to be shown up for what they are, and the reasons why ordinary people are supporting should be understood and addressed.

Bowchicawowow. You saying something is right because it is, is a bit like TRAs saying TWAW and #nodebate. Just not good enough. (Unless you also think that the TRA approach is also correct)

One odd thing for me is that through the whole GRA consultation no one seemed to be speaking up for Muslim women, even though the reforms would potentially have huge impact on their lives and freedoms. But suddenly we are supposed to deny people (an unsavory group undoubtedly) a right to march because they are not exactly Islamophiles. If Mayor Anderson showed the slightest ounce of interest in, or sympathy towards, the safety of women, I might be less strident. However he strikes me as every bit as dictatorial and undemocratic as the group he opposes. Instead of #nodebate let's have the debate and trust that most people are good people and that the moderate majority will prevail.

Have another look Juells. They are fascists. The posts are full of admiration for Tommy Robinson. A lot of their posts are anti-Muslim. They are not simply a pro Brexit group. If they were why the need to cover their faces as they ‘marched’?

Ah the good old UAF. The most fascist anti fascists around.

Thanks for the clarification.

I am not misrepresenting you Betty. I am asking for clarification

I haven’t said people shouldn't be ‘allowed’ to counter protest.

But carry on misrepresenting, Bowchicawowow, it only further illustrates my point.

Lisa Muggeridge’s videos about why the left identifying as ‘good’ can be problematic are worth viewing.

No problem Betty Thanks!

That makes more sense, shutting people up is not a good thing ever.

Standing up and being counted is a good thing!

If I may be so simplistic

So you are now saying that people should be allowed to counter-protest Betty?

Sorry, curious the silly was meant to be tacked to my ‘no’ - we cross posted, it wasn’t aimed at you.

Closing down free speech is the environment that allows facism to grow.

Assholes show themselves as assholes when they are allowed to speak - Nick Griffin on Question Time being the perfect example.

That’s what’s so counter productive about the TRA #nodebate tactic. If TRAs are right and ‘terfs’ are wrong, it should be easy to demonstrate that via panel discussions etc.

Individuals should always be free to protest/counter protest, but facism is kept at bay by a free press and democracy.

What??!!

Betty, you posted something that doesn't make sense to me, so I asked if I had understood your meaning... now I have to ask if your 'Silly' response was to me, before I can understand that, too!

Silly.

Are you saying that people should not go out onto the street and, simply by their presence, protest fascists Betty ?

Cos that's a tactic that has been used by protestors forever, including Tank Man at Tianneman Square, Flower Power in general, a lot of anti racism marches too!

No.

You have to be joking Betty. Are you seriously comparing the fascists’ tactics with a group of people singing and holding ‘No to rascism’ placards?

Anyone who believes you can beat facism using the same weapons as the fascists doesn’t actually understand what facism is.

Adropofreality Having seen the group in question and looked at their Instagram page I think that I can say with some certainty that they are fascists

Sorry, Bowchica, did you not get the memo? Your appointment as Lord High Decider Of What's Acceptable ran out the other day. I've been appointed in your place and as my first act I define you to be a fascist. Having been so defined, you're fair game; I'll get MNHQ to ban you, I'll arrange that your political views don't get to be heard, etc etc.

You don't get to define others as "fascists" and then treat them differently. That's how the right to free speech works.

Well! That's a nice confounding of 2 or more discrete things!

1.Anti fascist groups in Liverpool have stopped them getting beyond the train station more than once

1. Dear Joe always makes a noise, likes to claim that his people in his city are super cool . Even makes out that he personally arranges the anti demos, when actually they would happen without him!

1. He is a weirdly self aggrandising man who just want to stop people he disagrees with form getting their voice heard in Liverpool, where he likes to imagine he has some real control! Women, fascists, Everton supporters

It would be nice to think he is a caring sharing kind of mayor, but he isn't. He is the kind of militant, 'mythink' tinpot dictator of a politician that I thought had disappeared from Liverpool years ago! Tone deaf shop stewards, one and all!

Anti-fascism isn't an ideology

Honestly, you are complaining because the mayor of Liverpool objects to fascists?!

Mayors are not apolitical. Why shouldn't they call for people to march and demonstrate (legally and peacefully) for or against the political causes fro which they stand.
There's a difference between democracy and majoritarianism. A mayor is there to serve and protect the rights of all citizens. And citizens should not be considered the foot soldiers of a politicians ideology

Unless you think demos are mob rule, then I don't see why counter-demos are. It's peoples right to demonstrate, and other peoples right to show that they disagree with them via the same means! Of course, sometimes weight of numbers means that one or the other party ends up looking rather silly. I saw 4 hardy pro-brexit souls trying to have a counter-demo the day of the march in London and even they had the grace to be sporting slightly sheepish grins as they faced the hordes.

And as for the example of GC women, well yes, if we had a demo it would be fair enough for people who disagreed with us to hold a counter-demo! Not to intimidate or to threaten violence, obviously - but then that's never ok, either for a demo or for a counter-demo. Unless you think we shouldn't have the right to demonstrate at all, then calling for a counter-demo is by no stretch of the imagination calling for 'mob rule'.