Jordan Peterson on Question Time next Thursday

this idea that the FWR hive mind is a fan of JP

I can assure you that I have not time whatsoever for Jordan 'I could never respect a man who couldn't fight me' Peterson

he believes his wife's dreams sometimes foretell the future

does this mean I have to turn in my FWR membership card?

are you saying that she didn’t proudly tweet a picture of herself with him

She did. So what? Posie is a fan of his. So what? Many people are.

are you saying that she didn’t proudly tweet a picture of herself with him

Nope, quite clearly said upthread I have seen that.

and that she didn’t say there was a conspiracy against Tommy Robinson?

Nope, quite clearly said up thread I've no idea who the bloke is.

I also don't get what this thread has to do with Posie Parker or Tommy Robinson? 

Logical inconsistencies like this are what JP thrives on btw...

Peakpants
Posie isn't on this thread. Why are you directing your comments at her?

I am not telling anyone what to do but don’t get all shocked when people accuse you of associating with the alt right.

This 'you' again. Go and tweet Posie or something if that's who you want to talk to.

Yes, happy to confirm it’s directed at Posie Parker. It’s hardly a smear- are you saying that she didn’t proudly tweet a picture of herself with him and that she didn’t say there was a conspiracy against Tommy Robinson?
I am not telling anyone what to do but don’t get all shocked when people accuse you of associating with the alt right.
Rod Liddle IS a wife beater and writes horrible misogynistic columns about how no men fancy women who have a modicum of intelligence. Why shouldn’t I shout about it? He is abhorrent, as is TR and JP.

The "you" is a libfem message to rad fems or gc fems.

@gladysisbackintheroom

No, he didn't mean that gender identity was fashionable. He meant that a person's individual gender identity is simply their fashion sense. He has a point with that to be fair.

Some things are just a fashion though.

Helen Lewis did make Jordan Peterson look intelllectually thin.

He still has some interesting ideas though.

Posie isn't on the thread, she has posted a pic of her with JP online a while back so it's easy to spot the PP/JP/TR trope when I see it, it's used a lot by many of the anti mumsnet/fairplay for women/WPUK agitators on twitter.

It was really the use of 'you' - presumably to someone on the thread, about someone who wasn't on the thread - which I found odd. Do some people think we're all clones or something?

1970s (and earlier) feminism achieved quite a lot.

the Equal Pay Act 1970
the Sex Discrimination Act 1975

Sadly, we are still working on it!

The thing is @TrashyTerf, 1970s feminism was routinely patronised by mainstream discourse as a phase or a fashion. So it's really not a big or clever response.

Posie isn't on the thread, she has posted a pic of her with JP online a while back so it's easy to spot the PP/JP/TR trope when I see it, it's used a lot by many of the anti mumsnet/fairplay for women/WPUK agitators on twitter.

It's all smearing by association.

I have avoided much of the grooming news reports, my own child was groomed and yet treated as a criminal by the police/school/social services and now we are through this and out the other side I have to avoid the subject. But this smearing of people speaking out enables groomers. I was smeared by the school governors for criticising the schools failure to follow safe guarding so I am always sceptical now of this tactic.

It's complicated.

Tommy Robinson - leader /ex leader of right wing EDL - accused of racism and islamo phobia - he was in prison for live tweeting outside a grooming trial in Leeds - contempt of court. The only link with Jordan Peterson I am aware of is JP defended TR right to free speech - as he defended Count Dunkula in prison for a video of 'Joke' about the Holocaust and a Nazi saluting pug - JP made it clear the joke was vile and unfunny - JP has a big issue with law and control of language - which is what got him major publicity - battling and defying Laws in Canada that made it a crime not to call a man who identifies as woman She - 200 fellow academics tried to get him sacked (does this sound familiar)

Thanks, Electron. It looked as though Peak's comment was directed at me, as I'd said something about JP saying things I didn't agree with, and Peak was also addressing someone as 'you'. Bit odd, as I wasn't aware that Posie was on this thread.

PeakPants is using a popular smear description of Posie Parker.

At the risk of sounding out of the loop I don't actually know who Robinson is, there is only so much news I can read and what he has done has passed me by. What happens though is Posie's name is repeatedly put next to his to smear her by association.

I have met her several times and she is intelligent and nuanced.

Well he may say things you don’t agree with but if you RT him, pose for pics with him and also appear to support Tommy Robinson, you can’t be surprised if the TRAs jump on it.

What are you talking about, Peakpants? Tommy Robinson has only been mentioned in this thread by you and a poster I don't recognise (apart from a couple of regular posters who've asked you why you're talking about him).

RT him, pose for pics with him

Who is this directed at?

Not a fan of JP, but I did like how he summed up gender identity.

He said said he could define gender identity in one word: fashion.

Full of fans

I think this is a slightly silly exaggeration TonyDanza. I suggest it's also "full of fans" in your sense of Strictly Come Dancing.

JP's normal job is a professor, they are expected to make a public impact on society beyond their university, this what they are paid to do and the more impact they have the more money the uni pays them. He's still working there, he talks about this in the 90 minute video you refer to. He fought hard to keep his job when he was being attacked by the diversity and inclusion people that want diversity and inclusion to exclude free speech emanating from wrong thinkers. Professors take sabbaticals for lecture tours, it's an expected part of the job.

Helen Lewis (actual gender critical feminist Helen Lewis) does believe that transwomen are "actual women" whereas JP really does not.

And thanks for the instructions on how to behave PeakPants, maybe write a book about trite homilies and didacts called rules for life or something.

To keep telling us off for agreeing with Posie Parker and shouting he's a wife beater any time any one mentions something Rod Liddle said (and not even on this effing thread) at people discussing feminism is baffling.

When only 1 in ten people have inhaled transgenderism the broad range of the populous is going to be reflected in the other 90 percent, to get upset by this is a bit odd.

Me too, TonyDanza, me too. Utterly bizarre. Have also seen glowing support of videos from far-right religious extremist groups in the US, who advocate gay conversion therapy. I was told to shut up and ‘we don’t need to agree with everything someone says’ when expressing my horror. It actually is fairly straightforward. Don’t retweet or offer support for people who are deeply anti-feminist (eg Rod, who beat his pregnant girlfriend). Accept and recognise that others oppose self-ID for different reasons, but distinguish yourself from that and focus on your own reason for your opposition.

I’ve been posting on FWR since literally the first celebratory thread that this place existed, and I find the fact that it’s now full of fans of Peterson and woman-beating racist Rod Liddle beyond baffling.

Helen Lewis (actual gender critical feminist Helen Lewis) just did an excellent 90-minute video interview with Peterson for GQ that neatly exposes him as the giant weirdo he is.

It’s not just that he’s a misogynist, he’s given up his normal job and life to be a YouTube celebrity and the man is seriously unwell.

I see, 7Days, You are using the abstract terms, not the politics aligned/associated with "progressives" and "conservatives". I find that progressive parties are more likely to to conserve culture and history and work towards the improvement of quality of life, where as conversative parties act like a bunch of "my way or the highway" bullies who care far less about herritage and culture and history. I could do without the latter.

At FreeSpeecher I don't think that definition covers what these parties are doing anymore, if it ever did. Conservatives seem to deliberately introduce errors and confusion to maintain the control they currently have. They lie and cheat and pull us all back to ideas that were already outdated a 100 years ago. Progressives often seem too unfocused to take make a fist aginast such bullying tactics and assume conservatives are arguing in good faith, but all conservatives do is try to distract us from the fact that they have no arguments.

Well he may say things you don’t agree with but if you RT him, pose for pics with him and also appear to support Tommy Robinson, you can’t be surprised if the TRAs jump on it.

Vix well in US, Trump has curtailed trans rights and no chance of self-ID. He is also slowly but surely transforming the country into a veritable terrifying hell-hole for women, so....

But hypothetically, how would you feel about a very right-wing party taking power, putting an end to self-ID but also drastically reducing women’s reproductive rights? Because I would rather have self-ID than for that to happen.

Considering I see self ID as an end to womens rights fullstop, ending self ID is hypothetically much more important to me. Not that this will be a realistic choice in this country though.

I think the problem is that public endorsement of people like JP by GC feminists feeds into the TRA mantra that feminists are right-wing transphobes.

In that case TRAs should start listening to what we're saying instead of just dismissing us as transphobes and bigots. Are you suggesting that we should dismiss everything JP says just to try to appease the TRAs? Because that won't work. Nothing short of complete capitulation is enough for them.

I think JP has some interesting things to say, but I don't agree with everything he says. I doubt that there's another person on the planet that I would agree with on absolutely everything.