Jordan Peterson on Question Time next Thursday

Wow "male"? That's so racist!

Oh no! JP just said that "male" is a gender when discussing knife crime! 

First question is on "stop and search". Nothing new being said. JP hasn't spoken yet.

Verbose waffly word salad more like.

Accurate and precise my arse.

So looking forward to him trashing the rest of the panel

Twenty minutes.

I really admire him. He totally opened my eyes to issues around the transgender debate and also around free speech. Funnily enough I found him through a thread on Mumsnet a couple of years ago. I’ve watched all of his biblical series and learned a ton though I found it very hard to follow in places.

I think it’s simplistic in the extreme to label him misogynist and shut your ears to everything else he has to say - as simplistic as someone labelling GC feminists “transphobic”. His answers are complex because the topics he discusses are complex and he recognises that in a way most people don’t, and he is trying to be accurate and precise in his explanations.

The sad thing about reading this thread is that's it's exactly the sort of echo chamber people rail against in real life, and elsewhere on the internet. It's filled with endless anonymous allegations, willfully inaccurate misinterpretations and name-calling.

A good example being if TG comes up tonight you can guarantee he will be the only person on the panel that would dare to go anywhere near saying what 90% of posters here say, yet because he disagrees on patriarchy theory and causes of the gender pay gap he's a misogynistic prick to be avoided.

It is possible to agree with someone on some issues and disagree on others. This has been discussed on this thread (or possibly the other one on JP which was started about the same time), so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

"He first got public attention by making a huge fuss about how he was going to use the 'wrong' pronouns for his students and this was the hill he would die on etc. "

No he didn't.

He said he would make his own mind and not be compelled to use a pronoun he didn't feel was appropriate.

"It'll be interesting to see how he copes on Question Time when presumably he'll have a strict time limit. It could make him or break him."

Break him? I would be amazed if it did.
In the last two years he must have been interviewed, often at depth, at least 300 times and from what I have seen the majority of interviewers were hostile, especially after Kathy Newman made such an arsehole of herself with him.
There seems to have been an unwritten contract on his head for any , mostly left wing, interviewer that "tripped him up" that would be paid in kudos. He's in the middle of a worldwide sellout tour at the moment.
He is very very against identity politics.
Funny enough I think we see plenty of that here. If somebody disagrees with you on one thing then nothing he says about anything else should be given any credence.
A good example being if TG comes up tonight you can guarantee he will be the only person on the panel that would dare to go anywhere near saying what 90% of posters here say, yet because he disagrees on patriarchy theory and causes of the gender pay gap he's a misogynistic prick to be avoided.
If the subject does come up tonight enjoy it because I don't know who the next intellectual will be putting their head above the parapet to put your point of view.

Btw, Jenny Murray has just pulled out of a talk at Oxford after students called to de-platform her for a "transphobic" article she wrote last year.

No he wasn't going to use the wrong pronouns he was against enforced use of language with regard to pronouns.

Tonight's chorus line:

Kwasi Kwarteng MP
Diane Abbott MP
Mairead McGuinness MEP
David Aaronovitch
Jordan Peterson

Looks like it will be a lively one.

As well, "Calling Marxism, a respectable political and philosophical tradition, “murderous” conflates it with the perversion of those ideas in Stalinist Russia and elsewhere where they were."

Where , exactly, has it operated as a benign government acting in the best interests of its people?

"Marxist hellhole" is a common phrase- is there anywhere where Marxism has been adopted as a government which could not be described that way?

I don't think he's 'sound' on free speech in the least. He's another of those who thinks free speech is the right to be listened to and taken seriously if one is a white man. He first got public attention by making a huge fuss about how he was going to use the 'wrong' pronouns for his students and this was the hill he would die on etc. He's very big on dogwhistles for inadequate men who blame women/minorities for their own failure and consider white men the Most Oppressed.

I certainly don't agree with everything he stands for but he is sound on free speech and Trans and can hold his own in debate which I doubt people who state " Yet another needledick loser" can. Maybe Goldsmiths is more your thing?

Tbh I think the main battle will be between Peterson and Aaronovitch (who I like on some things and can't stand on others).

I see Diane Abbott's on too. I'm sure she'll do the sisterhood proud.

How do you think she'll avoid making the same predictable replies?

It'll be interesting to see how he copes on Question Time when presumably he'll have a strict time limit. It could make him or break him.

The limitations of short form panel shows like Question Time, which drive people towards adversarial confrontations, are becoming more and more pronounced as time goes by. Which is why online longform shows like Joe Rogan are proving MASSIVELY SUCCESSFUL. Typically one of Rogan's interviews gets a few million views.

Main Stream Media is dying because people are smart enough to handle detailed discission.

I see Diane Abbott's on too. I'm sure she'll do the sisterhood proud.

I don't often give in to the temptation to pull rank, so to speak, but I have been on MN for more than 10 years.

And yet somehow you found it within yourself to do exactly that.

Speaking of rank? It's nice to see you acknowledge the value of hierarchies, just like Jordan B Peterson.
👋⬇️🎤💅

BTW, for those who haven't read the article, very little of it is about anything to do with transgenderism.

It covers quite a lot of Peterson's career. And I'd forgotten this bit from last night, but actually it does indeed answer the question of whether Peterson is (in Schiff's observation) gender-critical:

"He is a biological and Darwinian determinist. Gender, gender roles, dominance hierarchies, parenthood, all firmly entrenched in our biological heritage and not to be toyed with."

Well that's certainly an interesting contrast to the conversation above, of posters saying they don't have to agree with everything Peterson says, to agree with some things he says.

Perking

I remember reading that article and noticing that, while the author knew Peterson better that most of those who had written about him, he also had a dog in the fight:

I have a trans daughter,