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Original poster

Email response from senior tory cabinet minister...

29 replies

SoulSaver · 01/11/2018 18:42

re GRA concerns...

Thank you for contacting me about transgender equality and protecting women's rights.

I would like to assure you that there is a strong commitment to achieving equality for all. There is no hierarchy of equality. The profile of transgender equality has rightly been raised in the past few years as many transgender people still encounter prejudice and discrimination. This, however, has not been to the detriment to women. The equal rights of women and of transgender individuals are being strongly promoted.

Transgender people often face some of the worst discrimination in our society. Proposals to streamline and de-medicalise the process for changing gender are part of a broad consultation of the legal system that underpins gender transition, the Gender Recognition Act (GRA). For many transgender people, and organisations that support transgender people, the legal recognition process is no longer delivering. The consultation aims to improve this public service to make the system less bureaucratic and intrusive for the trans people that use it.

There has been some misunderstanding and confusion about what this consultation covers and what it might mean. The consultation only asks about changes to the GRA and there will not be any amendments to the Equality Act 2010. Under the Equality Act 2010, some organisations may treat people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment differently in particular circumstances when it comes to accessing single- and separate-sex services, such as services provided to survivors of domestic abuse. The guidance on the issue makes it explicitly clear that the exception can only be used in exceptional circumstances and where there is no less discriminatory way of providing the service. The consultation is open and I know the Government Equalities Offices is keen to reassure organisations, especially women's groups, with concerns about what change to the GRA might mean. I would encourage you to contribute your views.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact me

OP posts:
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Manderleyagain · 02/11/2018 11:53

The P.S. is missing: "I have not studied this issue in any way and have literally no idea what the impact of the changes might be". yes.

Manderleyagain · 02/11/2018 11:51

Nottakingthisanymore
But the whole point is they legally change their sex. They are woman so an use women’s facilities. Isn’t this the whole point. Trans woman with GRC get to use women’s facilities because they are women. Self if makes it easier to become legally a woman. Or have I got this wrong? Why are they not listening? Why are they not reading things properly.

Lawyers don't seem to agree with each other on this. I have seen lawyers saying that the grc makes a difference if someone prosecutes for discrimination on grounds of having gender reassignment - if they don't have a grc their treatment will be compared to those of their own actual sex, if they do it will be compared to their new legal sex. In that case a trans woman is treated legally as a woman.

The ehrc guidance is clear that a grc holder should be treated in their new sex, and states it in relation to lots of contexts. But it doesn't state that in some contexts (ie sport, and refuges I think). The lawyer who gave evidence at the House of Commons inquiry into the equality act a couple of days ago said that a grc holder can be excluded from single sex services for their legal sex (or provided with the service a different way) if there is a legitimate need. She was very very clear on this.

This is why this whole discussion is such a mess. Plus the fact they are not reading things properly so do not know the questions to ask.

nauticant · 02/11/2018 11:25

Summary:

Previous changes haven't had an impact on women so the proposed ones won't either.

Trans people are the most oppressed ever.

This vital change necessary to make trans people's lives better will not lead to any changes for anyone else.

The P.S. is missing: "I have not studied this issue in any way and have literally no idea what the impact of the changes might be".

Juells · 02/11/2018 11:10

The equal rights of women and of transgender individuals are being strongly promoted.

How can they be equal, when women are half the population, with specific needs, and trans are a tiny proportion? What about 'your rights end where mine begin'?

TiredPony · 02/11/2018 10:57

I've had an interesting response from my MP who is in the Lib Dems. While it states the party line, he also says that he is trying to develop his own thinking. He mentions a lack of incidents involving transgender women so I am replying highlighting the case of Karen White.
He also says that women have not been silenced, and I am going to start my reply to him based on this angle with the cancellation of the Fair Play for Women meetings. If anyone can assist me with my research into my reply I'd really appreciate it. I'm not great with words.

skiptrip · 02/11/2018 10:44

Long time lurker on these boards (thanks so much to you all - I've learnt a lot here). This is very similar to the response I had from my Tory MP today.

Email response from senior tory cabinet minister...
KatherinaMinola · 01/11/2018 21:09

The consultation is open and I know the Government Equalities Offices is keen to reassure organisations, especially women's groups, with concerns about what change to the GRA might mean. I would encourage you to contribute your views.

They haven't updated that bit, have they? Consultation closed a couple of weeks ago.

MacaroonMama · 01/11/2018 21:03

Vixxxy so it is working for those it was intended to work for. Exactly. I wonder if we will end up going down the two boxes to tick on all official documents - sex (M/F) - and gender - fill in if important you, leave blank if not. It sometimes feels like the best way to sort this out.

nottakingthisanymore · 01/11/2018 20:43

But the whole point is they legally change their sex. They are woman so an use women’s facilities. Isn’t this the whole point. Trans woman with GRC get to use women’s facilities because they are women. Self if makes it easier to become legally a woman. Or have I got this wrong? Why are they not listening? Why are they not reading things properly.

Vixxxy · 01/11/2018 20:40

So why is it not working? How is it failing people?

Because only around 5000 people have a GRC. Even though, when drafted it was estimated that 3000-5000 people would get one. So its working just as intended. Just theres now 500k people who claim to be trans Hmm

MacaroonMama · 01/11/2018 20:34

“The legal recognition process is no longer delivering”. HOW? I just don’t get how. It is possible to legally change sex in this country. The trans people I know have been seen by various medical HCPs for their dysphoria, hormone needs, surgery etc - they are used to talking about their difficulties. The money is very small and can be waived can’t it it, if unaffordable? So why is it not working? How is it failing people?

miri1985 · 01/11/2018 20:17

So theres no hierarchy of equality but there is a hierarchy of discrimination

Gncq · 01/11/2018 20:03

I read your post and immediately clocked that it was a copy-and-paste job but distressingly it reads extremely similar to responses I have had from Stella Creasy who is Labour Party.

RedDogsBeg · 01/11/2018 19:57

From that letter: The guidance on the issue makes it explicitly clear that the exception can only be used in exceptional circumstances and where there is no less discriminatory way of providing the service.

In other words - there will be NO female only spaces and services, free reign to the Karen Whites of this world to use all facilities where girls and women are in a state of undress or vulnerable.

Utterly disgusting - a safeguarding nightmare and women are being used as mere disposable chattels.

OpalIridescence · 01/11/2018 19:25

Mine was from Sajid Javid

RebeccaWrongDaily · 01/11/2018 19:25

it does look like a standard PRU/PRS reply. You should ask for a meeting.

poshme · 01/11/2018 19:23

Although if lots of people got it, it might be an older PRU letter.

Original poster
SoulSaver · 01/11/2018 19:23

It was Jeremy Hunt btw

OP posts:
Badstyley · 01/11/2018 19:21

Not a lot of mention of womens’ rights in there, is there?

Don’t worry sweetheart, it’ll all be ok.

WAHF · 01/11/2018 19:19

Virtually word for word the same as mine too (Tory) but mine did have a little extra.

gendercritter · 01/11/2018 19:18

I'd be glad to know who this was from. I'd like to write to them.

OpalIridescence · 01/11/2018 19:17

That is word for word the letter I received from my Tory MP

poshme · 01/11/2018 19:16

Donkey although it reads a bit like PRU, it isn't their standard response.

It's just bland. But not a copy and paste.

FekkoThePenguin · 01/11/2018 18:58

I thought it wasn't classified as a mental health issue these days.

I just find it irritating that a tiny minority of a minority have pushed to the front of the queue for 'the worstest things happen to me' when other groups have been fighting and clawing got equality for ever.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/11/2018 18:57

You can’t pull yourself together, if you are mentally ill, but anyone can change their clothes etc.

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