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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Email from Girl Guides

34 replies

purplebutterflybiscuits · 01/11/2018 16:36

I have finally had a reply from my complaint to girl guides. I was wondering if anyone could help me in how to respond. There are two parts that I am particularly unhappy about.

  1. "The Equality Act 2010 says that organisations like Girlguiding which provide single-sex services should treat trans people according to the gender they identify with."

Sex or gender, which is it? And is this really what the equality act says??

2)"In reality, we’ve found this comes up very rarely. When it has, we’ve worked WITH EVERYONE, including parents when appropriate, to balance needs and make sure every girl feels comfortable. This has included organising separate facilities for anyone who wants or needs them. We support anyone who asks for alternate accommodation or facilities, not just trans young people" But then goes on to say "Data protection law means we have to protect the privacy of every member’s personal information, and keep it safe. It is illegal to share personal or sensitive data about an individual without their permission, and this includes sharing that a trans person is trans."

How are girls or their parents supposed to ask for separate accommodation from male bodied people if they aren't being told about it? This seems contradictory to me.

Any help most appreciated.

OP posts:
FFSFFSFFS · 01/11/2018 18:14

The Equality Act 2010 says that organisations like Girlguiding which provide single-sex services should treat trans people according to the gender they identify with.

It really really doesn't.

merrymouse · 01/11/2018 18:14

I agree that their interpretation of the Equalities Act seems to be wrong, but somebody else can probably explain why better.

I would also be asking them why they feel they need to be a single 'gender'. What do they think gender identity is, and what common characteristics do they think girls have, if not physical? Why are they excluding boys? Do they think boys can't share these characteristics? Does a girl who identifies as a boy automatically not have these characteristics?

Who is deciding whether a trans child is eligible to joint the girl guides and on what criteria? Is it the same for each group? If there are no guidelines, how do they know that discrimination isn't happening?

Even if this comes up rarely, they are making a statement about who they believe girls are - please could they define clearly who their organisation is and isn't for.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/11/2018 18:01

A GRC gives some advantages in some circs, but is irrelevant anyway as only adults can get one.
I also feel that insisting that gender questioning young boys are actual girls, isn’t giving them much room to change their minds as they go through puberty.

ProfessionalBarren · 01/11/2018 18:00

@AgnesBadenPowell can you help with this at all? Sorry to @ if it’s bad form!

Gncq · 01/11/2018 17:40

1) "The Equality Act 2010 says that organisations like Girlguiding which provide single-sex services should treat trans people according to the gender they identify with

This quite honestly isn't true.
They've been coached by Stonewall and Mermaids et al into believing for it's true but transpeople, with or without a GRC, can be excluded from a same-sex space if it achieves proportionate means to a legitimate aim. This is an infuriatingly vague turn of phrase, but the EA2010 lays out that Girl Guides can absolutely turn away transgirls if they wanted to.

There's a post by Datun somewhere that explains it all. I'll try to dig it up and will post if I can find it.

AdventuringThroughLife · 01/11/2018 17:37

I came here as I had one too. Kind of miss the point. A kind of "there there we want the best for all girls, stop being disctiminatory!"

Beamur · 01/11/2018 17:35

I've had an email too. All very well meaning, etc. But totally refusing to actually address the points raised.

SirVixofVixHall · 01/11/2018 17:35

It really is unbelievable that Girl Guides are taking this stance.

ProfessionalBarren · 01/11/2018 17:22

Well done on raising this with them. I’m not an expert on the equality act but I thought that it includes the scope to retain single sex facilities where there is a legitimate need for these (which I hope includes safeguarding children). Hopefully someone else can provide the letter of the law here to help you. If not then try looking at the past threads about Girlguiding here as I’m sure it’s in there somewhere.
Your second point is excellent and very concise - I’d just send that back to them as is and say you look forward to receiving their clarification on this matter.

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