My employer has invited Susie Green for a transgender inclusion event

I'm surprised that they are paying someone so controversial on to blether on. Not only be sure she is a self appointed expert who knows about her kids experience (built a career in it) and I'd imagine not a lot about business, HR, compant law...

Better hide the pink post it notes and highlighters.

It may be worth mentioning to your employer that the proportion of women who have been sexually assaulted (around 1 in 5 in the UK, apparently) is very much higher than the proportion of 'women who are male' (well under 1%).

Is he planning on keeping any actual single-sex provision for those women, or just making them get their pants off in mixed-sex facilities?

What some random person uploads to YouTube has nothing to do with this thread.

You might want to re- read your contract of employment before saying anything

What has been counter productive to the Feminists agenda is the mocking Video on Youtube , of Susie Green and Mermaids

that appears Nasty, Personal , and Bullying

In talking to this man (and any other men) about single sex and/or mixed-sex toilets (and each and every time they use the word 'gender', say "You mean sex), I'd ramp up the discussion about periods, etc - I'd get more and more explicit about why we need single-sex toilets for women (as well as the faith/ethnicity issues others have mentioned).

And I agree with Badmoonsarising

I would be very interested to know what on earth she is doing giving a talk at your workplace in the first place as it is sounds to be highly inappropriate given her background.
Is this how she makes her money now?

I would ask what analysis her charity is doing on the massive uptick in young girls thinking they are trans.
All that money mermaids receives, surely they spend some on understanding the root cause of the issue they exist to support.
Or is there a conflict of interest...because the more trans kids the more referrals and the more funding, etc

Why am I seeing companies bending over backwards to do this sort of thing but not for inclusion for, say disabled employees?

I remember something years ago at a firm I worked for for people with asbergers, as we used to have people on work experience from a charity. This was when this was the 'issue' that was very talked about.

What numbers are we talking about here - or is it just a major PR campaign?

I wouldn’t be surprised if SG is aware of this thread and following it closely.

The policy will say that people can use the toilets of their preferred gender.

That discriminates against women who cannot use mixed sex spaces such as Muslim, Jewish, Sikh and Romany women, and against Muslim men during Ramadan.
It also discriminates against women who are menstruating, or experiencing a miscarriage.

Suggest they keep the women's single sex toilets and make one of the men's toilets unisex instead.

I think just listening at the event is fine - that's what i would do.

Consider what SG is saying in the light of your own expertise and policies at work. If she simply says 'there are people who are trans, it can start in childhood, here's my experience, good luck with your new policy' then going in 'acting naive' or v confrontational is not going to do anything but antagonise people. The aim shouldn't be to make everyone gender critical or to prosecute people who take boys overseas for genital mutilation, because that's not illegal. The aim should be to ensure compliance with the law and clarity in a policy, with a view to your own legal rights and work needs.

I've just listened to Susie Green's Ted Talk, thanks to the PP. Her daughter clearly seems happier and appears to have genuine gender dysphoria. However, despite the early part of the talk (could be a boy who just prefers "girly" things which one of my very male husbands did) she then goes into as does her DD to "girl brain in boys body". Which is not great. I know 99.9% of us would not abuse any child who was confused in their choices - I don't know where Susie's daughter was brought up but any parent abusing a child/teenager would have been swiftly reported to any school round here.

HOWEVER, OP I think, once checking out all your firm's policies and statistics on those who have genuine intersex natal problems and gender dysphoria and the proportion of transgender people , you should ask her

• what she advises the firm to do given they presumably can't and don't discriminate on hiring policies
• can she advise you on the difference between someone who is gender dysphoric like her daughter and someone who wants to self identify as a woman while remaining male
• does she see any difficulty with that - including the problem of women being uncomfortable or prohibited by religion from sharing space?
• depending on her response to the reforms she'd like to see - eg loos etc, why is it always the women who give way?

Clearly the GRA is about to be reformed, so this is a bit previous.

It is extremely odd for an employer to bring in an organisation that advises parents and children. I don't want my employer presenting partisan and controversial parenting gurus to me at work, and I most definitely don't expect to be presented with this parenting advice in a way that implies the view of this organisation are part of my employment terms and conditions.

What on earth are they doing? Over stepping the mark I think and I am surprised it is happening. Would they bring in Save the Children to advise on diversity polices for adults at work or Barnardos?

Heads of D&I are underemployed in organisations, there really isn't enough for them to do, this is all misguided make work.

I would tell my manager that I dont expect to be told I have to follow a controversial parenting organisation's advice AT WORK, and I don't expect to be told I have to believe these dangerous and unsubstantiated myths by MY EMPLOYER.

Need wouldn't SG simply deny the existence of AGP?

The involvement of Susie Green is pinging things for me. Perhaps a personal connection as her organisation not a great fit if no children involved.

Can you do some research on the guy in charge of this policy? I would want to know who his allegiances are and also find myself, quite by accident of course, discussing these issues with a few people in HR, and go has high up as you can with your concerns. They all need to be reminded that any policy changes don't happen in a vacuum so the impacts on all employees need to be considered - and also a few pointed reminders about the equality act exemptions based on sex as a protected characteristic.

And thinking about this I now have the rage that it's falling in you to defend your sex based rights at work.

The best thing to do is play dumb. Ask them to explain the logic to you and watch it fall apart in front of their own eyes...

.. the process, and it will take a lot more than one email. So what if they don't like me for it.

I have to approach my own employer about removed sex as a protected characteristic, and my union. What are they going to do, sack me? Obviously I'll be raising i

Work place Equality and Inclusion policies will be based on Equality Act 2010. There are 9 protected characteristics. Sex is one, gender reassignment another.
Gender and Gender identity are not protected characteristics and policies which refer to them as such are misrepresenting legislation.

Many policies are incorrect and this most likely has happened in good faith by useing templates from trusted sources.

Recent threads where policies discussed including charities, businesses, clubs & schools:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3404539-Major-childrens-charity-Stonewall-Mermaids-and-gender
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3405925-I-came-across-my-companys-trans-policy
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410237-Help-please-club-constitution

Dear Pinky's post caused me to think.

I would be genuinely interested in hearing SG speak.

Hers is an individual experience. Transgenderism is so much broader. I would be interested in whether she sees gender dysphora as no different from AGP etc. What she thinks of SelfID and whether she has concerns for her own daughters, ie safeguarding, safe sport etc. And does she really share a loo with the blokes in office.

(In one office I worked in male colleagues would complain that the mad keen cyclist would strip off his lycra and sponge himself down whilst bollock naked. Joke was that he only had to cycle a couple of miles. I did the same distance on a Boris Bike. A female space is important.)

I understand, though dont agree with, the Mermaids approach but would be interested in how they advise very disturbed children with several things going on.

In short, to what extent has she drunk the Stonewall Koolaid and why.

It is a muti faceted issue and concerns of people on this board vary. There is no obvious reason why SG should support SelfID, unless she has ambitions for a career in the wider TG industry

Absolutely suggest that the male toilets become gender neutral and the women’s remain women’s. I would actually discuss why - women need sex segregated spaces to deal with menstruatiin. And I would raise the recent report highlighting that assaults are more prevalent in mixed sex facilities.
If the men jump up and down that they don’t want women in their spaces, it’s much easier to ask why women don’t have right to say no.
My workplace gym has a women’s toilets and gender neutral toilets, women’s changing rooms, and men’s changing rooms, and there is a third gender neutral room that can be used.
I think the main point to get over is to ask why your employer is considering erasing women’s rights.
The men’s can be gender neutral. Job done.