Transman kicked out of gay sauna

I think it's bang out of line to suggest I was saying otherwise.

I'm equally allowed to be put-off by anything I consider a turn-off.

I disagree, people are well within their rights to only have the sort of sex they want. If they don’t want vaginal sex (I refuse to call it a hole, it’s inaccurate and dehumanizing) that’s entirely their choice. Calling it off putting is entirely unfair.

Of course people have boundaries - but saying - during sex - that parts of their body are reserved for other people is off-putting.

Wow, that mic article. The narcissism is mind blowing.

remember that some body areas may have a virtual "reserved" notice on them?

Your point about the rest is valid, this is not. Everyone has the right to their own sexual boundaries. If a new partner stuck their cock in your arse when you'd told them not to, you'd feel pretty violated too.

Holes? WTF.

That Mic article is priceless: He went home with someone once and though he had begun to have penetrative sex in his front hole, he had reserved that for his main partner, a cisgender boyfriend of four and a half years.

"I told him, "I have two holes, you can only use one of them. That's my back one,'

So men today are expected to use an app that broadcasts to everyone for miles around that they're available, but on meet-up they need to remember pronouns for each person, remember their specific non-triggering names for their genitals, and remember that some body areas may have a virtual "reserved" notice on them?

Hmmm. I think I'll stick to a cup-a-soup, book, and a squishy cat for my evenings entertainment thanks. It's a lot less work.

I think they want married men (etc.) to 'give it a go'. Bicurious or whatever it's called.

Just looked at the site. I feel quite naive.
Apparently there is a 'big difference' between 'gay guys' and 'guys who are into guys'.

I really wish I'd looked at that on private browser. Nothing bad, just can picture the pop ups* now.

• bad pun intended

I read that as they've clarified their website, not that they've capitulated. Assuming the non press release shot was post the attack on them they make it very clear that male genitalia is required.

Nope they've since overcome their evil transphobia

www.menfriends.co.nz/f-a-q/

The comments are interesting. The usual argument about whether men have a penis or a vagina!

2rebecca - I've just sent this article to DM as she asked me the other day where all the trans men were....I suspect she'll ask me the same question about gay saunas! Really not a conversation I ever thought we'd be having. But then I never imagined that my rather prom and proper DM would state "women don't have penises" while we're trying to eat Sunday dinner (poor DF and DH almost choked) 

Following for the tweets

Wait....they have a special day for 'big and cuddly' I'm so charmed by that I've missed the point of the thread!!

Are male gay saunas just orgy fests then? Feel very naive. Poor cleaners.
Will be interesting to see if it attracts the same level of abuse as antitranswoman women only places

I don't think it's simply about getting dick. For some transmen, being validated will be much more important. In a way that's similar to some MtFs' pursuit of lesbians, I would expect some transmen to want male sex partners who are gay while not wanting those who are straight.

I have a bisexual sexual partner who uses gay saunas to get some dick. I don't imagine he will be too thrilled if he starts hitting on a dude only to discover when the towel drops that there is no dick for him to suck. If ftm want casual encounters with men then there are any number of hookup sites they can use to find men who want sex with ftm. It's a bit off to rock up to a sausage fest when most men there won't want anything to do with someone with a vagina, even if they aren't expecting anyone to touch it. And aside from anything else, what a waste of money to go to a gay saunsa where the chances of you getting laid are near enough zero.

Sorry correction, in the end the gay men in Christchurch were cured of their transphobic hatred of vagina.

I read that as they've clarified their website, not that they've capitulated. Assuming the non press release shot was post the attack on them they make it very clear that male genitalia is required.

I definitely do not welcome this development. It's quite likely that in allowing transmen in, Sailors Sauna will expect there will be little impact and so this will prove. Even if other transmen turn up, the most it will amount to is a nuisance. You'll have some pissed off gay men and that will be it. At most.

If the Joneses and the Harrops and the rest of them comment on this, I think they'll be relaxed in saying "that was bad behaviour by Sailors Sauna, it's good they've seen the light, the sky didn't fall in, and this proves there'll be little impact by our nice transwomen friends being given the legal gift of access all (women's only) areas".

I cannot say this enough: MtF and FtM are not mirror images of each other. The impact of MtF on F is very unlike the impact of FtM on M.

Has the Doctor Identifying Adrian commented yet?

This is too good.

Neither of the above theories fit the trans man I know. He is in his late 20s. From a very early age he refused to wear girls' clothes, never had dolls although loved Sylvanian families and train sets. Loathed sport and still does. Academically inclined towards arts not science. Chose not just masculine clothes but clothes from the boys' section. Parents were perfectly fine with this. No pressure from them to be anything other than what he wanted. Attended a very liberal state school with no uniform policy.

At the age children start to be interested in fancying people very clearly fancied only heterosexual boys and men - often much older men (these were celebrity crushes , not real life and the celebrity crushes were of straight men, not gay) Had a number of boyfriends of same age in late teens/early 20s. Started transitioning at 27.

I've known him all his life. I think the last couple of years are the times I've seen him the happiest, most confident and most at ease in his own skin.

Stonewall Petition is at 6853,
'Please join us in asking Stonewall to reconsider its transgender policies and approach'
(extract)
"Stonewall’s promotion of the concept of 'gender identity’, which has it that a man or woman is anyone (of either sex) who identifies as such, is also undermining the basis of lesbian, gay and bisexual identities as orientated around same-sex attraction. Lesbians in particular are coming under pressure to accept male-bodied trans women into their spaces and as sexual partners.

At the moment, Stonewall is failing in three key ways:

By uncritically adopting a form of transgender politics which undermines the sex-based rights of women and the concept of homosexuality itself
By refusing to recognise the diversity of viewpoints on these issues, including among LGBT people.
By seeking to prevent public debate of these issues by branding as transphobic anyone who questions Stonewall’s current trans policies.
We call on Stonewall to:

Acknowledge that there are a range of valid viewpoints around sex, gender and transgender politics
Acknowledge specifically the conflict that exists between transgenderism and sex-based women’s rights
Commit to fostering an atmosphere of respectful debate, rather than demonising as transphobic those who wish to discuss or dissent from Stonewall’s current policies"
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

Jason's out to prove that's a phallusy.

'Cis gay male culture is so phallocentric'

Oh.