Jordan Peterson Interview with Helen Lewis

To me Peterson delivers a combination of snake oil and (some) common sense. There's nothing new there. What does look new is that he packages it up in a way that makes it difficult for critics to get a grip on it.

He's on The bullshitter spectrum

I've just watched. I like him (have recently been watching interviews/lectures with him anyway), I don't agree with him over the whole patriarchy thing, but most of what he says is really interesting.

He definitely seems to be on the autistic spectrum.

Here's a link to the book in case anyone wants to have a read
www.amazon.co.uk/Sexual-Politics-Meat-Anniversary-Feminist-Vegetarian-ebook/dp/B016N2QTU8/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=The+sexual+Politics+of+meat&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1540990336&sr=8-1

I think his career relies on the trick of using post-modernism as he defines it against itself. He rails against post-modernism and the notion of deconstruction, but at the same time asks us to deconstruct the patriarchy and consider it as a meritocracy instead. This is probably why he gets airtime when someone like Roosh V doesn't, his strategy is a bit more sophisticated rather than his ideas. I think Helen Lewis did a great job of keeping her cool whilst showing him up for the vacuous one trick pony he is.

What struck me was her demonstration of how often meat is advertised by images of the animals as 'pornified' stereotyped images of women.*

Collection of images sent to Carol J Adams from around the world here:
caroljadams.com/examples-of-spom/

Haven't read the thing about meat but I'm hoping it echoes what I have a fear is the true story of primitive man: men go off hunting for day on end, eat part of the catch and bring some meat home, women stay at home and get the hell on with providing the mostly plant and foraged diet of primitive man, raising kids and generally making the village work. praising the men for 'bringing home the bacon'. As echoed through the aeons by the phenomena that I call 'male performance cooking' (mostly to be found at barbecues when men stand around barbecues annihilating meat while women get the bread ready, make the salad, lay the table, stop the kids killing each other and so on. Barbecues must not be left you know!)

sorry massive derail - didn't know I was so annoyed. But, you know, own the anger.

Video here by Carol J Adams explaining the basis for her book, 'The Sexual Politics of Meat'
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=108&v=iCi9sFY42K4

More info here:

caroljadams.com/cja-bio/

NothingOnTellyAgain

Yes of course. The lecture was obviously nuanced.

What struck me was her demonstration of how often meat is advertised by images of the animals as 'pornified' * stereotyped images of women.
The language etc of the advertising discussed was fascinating to me. Its an area I have had a long interest in.

I'll see if I can find a link to a paper but the link above has an interview with Carol Adams.

(I'm not a vegan btw)

@Rowan, thanks for the Carol J Adams link 😊I will look into that!
I have to admit I didn't listen too much of the interview because I think he's a Pratt and I feel very reluctant to give him that much of my time

Rowan -

Loads of vegan chaps are misogynists though :D

Although I bet it was a fascinating talk and the exploitation of animals esp female ones by humans is ?analogous to the eploitation of women and girls by men.

Also he is so palpably fragile you feel like he is going to burst out crying any minute.

Helen Lewis sounds like an encouraging nursery teacher trying to draw out his best but he wants to play in the sand pit, not count to 10 now. Waaaaaa Waaaaaa!

I just can't stand his ridiculous word salad. I don't know how he manages to get through the fucking day. Such a dicksplash.

it's all about invoking masculinity with the meat eating, the primitive caveman get back to the roots stuff

Its fascinating to consider Peterson's beef diet in contrast to a thought-provoking lecture at FiLiA conference:

"Carol J. Adams is an American activist and author who has written extensively on the sexual politics of meat. Here she discusses how a culture of meat-eating and the objectification of women as flesh to be consumed are intimately connected. She argues that veganism and the dismantling of misogny go hand-in-hand."

filia.org.uk/podcasts/2018/10/8/filia-meets-carol-j-adams-filia-speaker-and-aurhor

I'm afraid that, brief sympathy for his position on pronouns aside, I think he's a prat and I disagree with everything else he has to say.

I don't really pay him much attention. Much better for my blood pressure.

It makes me think of all that red pill, holding frame, amused mastery bullshit

My impression is that he's a kind of Guru figure, a beacon for the incels
He is easily destroyed by rational enquiry but that's not what it is about, gurus don't jive with rational enquiry and they're not trying to appeal to people who analyse things in that way
it's all about invoking masculinity with the meat eating, the primitive caveman get back to the roots stuff

The thing is, the patriarchy evolved from the fact that women are the reproducers. They became valuable commodities in agricultural communities as they produce more children to work the farm. Women are quite capable of doing all sorts of things, it suited men to keep them in their place.

I felt great admration for Helen Lewis watching this yesterday.

Where to start though with Jordon Peterson?
I think this interview revealed a great deal about him.