Another claim of abusive 'TERF's against the poor helpless trans women

‚...born male Sally has the human right to be recognized as female...‘ ? Never heard of the human right to have others deny reality to cater to one‘s own beliefs.

Sexuality has to be labelled fluid as

If a person can change whether they are "man" or "woman" on a daily basis then their partner is sometimes straight and sometimes gay. Or always bisexual? Whatever. End game is same sex sexual orientation is verboten, and really everyone needs to be open to sex worth anyone who wants at any time. The people who tend to ask anyone at any time are men. This is a men's sexual rights movement.

Gender as well as sexuality are increasingly fluid

Gender is anconstruct so be as fluid as you like
Sexuality is varied and absolutely nothing to do with being trans. Trans is not a sexual orientation.

sex remains unchanged. factual, reality based biology cares not one whit for societal change.,

"Sally has been campaigning for over 30 years to claim the space that is rightfully hers."

"To exclude people who have also fought so hard to be visible – to survive – and to claim their true gender identity as female – is just very sad. The world is changing. Gender as well as sexuality are increasingly fluid and the overwhelming majority of feminists know that and support all people to claim what is rightfully theirs."

Writer believes not only that anyone who says they are female is literally female but they should CLAIM what is RIGHTFULLY THEIRS.

This is very weird phrasing.

Like women (cunty) have been keeping something of value from the people who rightfully own it. Put me in mind of a fairytale and GC women are the wicked stepmother, keeping the beautiful princess from their rightful inheritence...

"Before I get any further, it is important to reiterate that sexual abuse and violence happens overwhelmingly to women. Sexual violence is a gendered issue. For centuries, women and women’s bodies have been treated like property – something to be owned and consumed, used and abused."

This is utterly meaningless. The group "women" can include any human being according to the writer. So the above statement is ENTIRELY MEANINGLESS and I find it hypocritical in the extreme that they have included it.

comment after comment after nasty comment. I’m not going to give them any more oxygen by describing them here.

Goodness! People must have been saying really terrible things if the author’s delicate sensibilities won’t even allow her to describe what was said... mustn’t they?

From reading into this, the majority of the abuse seems to have been of the type that calmly states that

trans people should be protected too but female victims of male violence need female-only spaces
transwomen are not female
while trans people are free to express themselves, they do not change sex and therefore should not be given the right in law to identify as the other sex on their say-so

Pretty standard GC fare. As the moderators have hidden all of the comments however, it is impossible to know for sure how many of those comments were actually expressing transphobic views. Judging from the misrepresentation of the issue through the lense of an unquestioning TWAW person, I would hazard a guess that most comments were not what the dictionary defines as transphobia.

but it is her human right to be recognised as female.

No, it really isn’t. It may hurt sally’s feelings to say this, but women are not protesting this to be mean. They’re doing so because to ‘recognise’ a man as female harms the protections women have. And so harms women.

Far more context is needed to have a view on this. Namely, what was actually said, by whom and in what context?

And the human right to be recognised as female...

"She may have been assigned a male gender identity at birth but it is her human right to be recognised as female."

What an absolute bullshit sentence. 'Assigned a male gender identity at birth'! That is not a thing!

Maybe it just doesn't work to include men and women in domestic violence organisations.

The responses do seem inappropiate, though they would be just as strong if Women's Aid were to try to run an event like that.

I can't see any reason for a transwoman not to be on a panel which includes people of both sexes who have been victims of sexual violence.

The feminist critics appear to have been criticizing Sally's bio rather than Sally's participation. Unless the children mentioned are adopted or step, then the real story is that Sally is a heterosexual father who identifies as a woman. A scenario that's typical of late transitioners.

Describing Sally as a lesbian is untrue, appropriative and offensive. Sally is not female. I can see why women were critical.

I think it is pretty bad that the NZ organisation and their speaker was attached like that.

That may be so, but what actually happened? There is no information at all about what was said or done.

I would be interested to know what sort of service this organisation provides.

If its a DV service for anyone, then fair enough to allow transwomen to take part.

If its supposed to be for 'women' (and there was a definite current of 'these awful TERFS think that transwomen aren't women' in that article) then I can see why people would object.

I also agree that 'transphobic attacks' now consist of saying 'women don't have a penis' so it's quite tricky to make a judgement about what people mean when they say 'abuse'.

I’d be interested to know if the comments were actually nasty, or just along the lines of, “yeah, not a woman”.

This is another way TRAs have really screwed things up for transgender people. When people talk about transphobia I am now more inclined to roll my eyes and say "oh, someone talked about biology in front of you again?" than get up in arms. They've removed all meaning from the word by weaponising it the way they do. Cry wolf. We're all against actual transphobia, but talking about our own biology ain't it.

Sorry last line redundant there.

Maybe I haven't been clear.

If gender critics were commenting on this event AT ALL - I can't see why.

I have lots of personal experience of domestic violence and NZ. It's a big problem there, and while women are overwhelmingly victims the part of patriarchal culture that is scathing towards men not deemed manly enough is a MASSIVE problem in NZ.

It's a cause of dv in NZ and also a massive barrier towards male victims speaking up. #wetoo in this very specific context makes sense to me.

I don't think

^^ this

Gender critical feminists criticising an organisation that from the start says it supports all survivors of sexual abuse for including one of those survivors on tne panel?

And offering comments that exactly because HELP is a non sex-segregated space, are irrelevant.

Though I am not defending deleting or shutting down discussion.

I want to be able to maintain sex seperated spaces. I am confident of my right to define my identity partly in my biological sex. But having a go at a self declared ‘wraparound’ organisation for including a Trans speaker to talk about the legitimate issue of addressing abuse of Trans people does make these protestors look anti trans.

And surely it is important that we seperate anti-trans from anti TRA extremist hate, being GC and being anti self ID.

Here are some replies from gender critical feminists on twitter, for a bit of balance

twitter.com/tommygun1964/status/1057029869136007168?s=19

twitter.com/renee_jg/status/1057066619313184768?s=19

I agree with others, it seems like anti-trans people got involved unfairly slating a trans person at an inclusive event.

Not the same as being gender critical.

This is why I worry about some of the things posted on here and the sources some MNers are getting their news from. There are a big chunk of anti-trans people who are just hateful human beings.

The worst result would be if reasonable gender criticism got involved with that.

Well, each and every bad move by Trans : TRAs gets aired . This was a wrong move by anti-TRA feminists, the organisation and the individual was hurt by it, they have a right to blog about their responses.

Bit poor, too, to disbelieve the comments. Disbelieving a woman who runs a sexual survivors group who recounts abuse ?

We don’t do anyone any favours by being blindly partisan.

And I would be very disappointed if any gender critical person denied that Trans people do suffer abuse. Out in the streets as well as sexual, and wished to deny them support in dealing with that or working towards its eradication.