Kai Shappley: A Trans Girl Growing Up In Texas

Dear little kid, I find it difficult that she said all that without some coaching. I suppose the mother has gone so far with it now she has to go public and justify it. I sincerely hope she stops at surgery and puberty blockers, Kai may well outgrow the girly phase, a lot do.

OlennasWimple You’re right. But it’s so awkward for her and she was pulling them up all the time. Especially in the cold. I don’t tell her about the worry of people seeing her underwear, but she is taught that she has private areas that no one needs to see.

"Homosexuality is against the law in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Sharia, the Islamic legal system, condemns homosexuality as a crime worthy of death. The Iranian criminal threatens gay individuals with lashes and the death penalty. Men always face the death penalty if they were the "passive" partner in a homosexual act. According to the underlying logic, such men behave like women, making them all the more unnatural. The "active" partner faces the death penalty under certain conditions, and otherwise receive 100 lashes. Women receive a sentence of 100 lashes in all cases."

Internaitonal society for human rights

As seen above >> the punishment for a gay man who "takes the womans role" (ie is penetrated) is worse than for a gay man who penetrates.

Misogygy.

If the "submissive" gay men agree to be castrated, take hormones and "become" women then they are free, no punishment.

Misogyny + homophobia.

WTF are the Guardian on talking about individual men deciding to trans to "reconcile" with their religion? UTTER WANKERS.

I find that Guardian extract EXTRAORDINARILY disingenuous (lies really).

"Increasingly conservative attitudes in the region have made matters worse. Since President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi’s regime came to power in Egypt in 2014, arrests of gay, lesbian and transgender people have risen fivefold in an apparent bid to stave off conservative critics. Homosexuality was made a capital offence in Iran after the Islamic revolution of 1979. Though executions for consensual same-sex activity are difficult to track, several gay men have been hanged on questionable grounds there, such as being accused of rape and not being given a fair trial, as recently as 2016."

economist

i thought homosexuality was illegal in iran
and the choice was trans (inc surgery) or death (penalty)
have things changed

The similarities with Iran and their policies -this is from a Guardian article:
‘Iran carries out more sex reassignment operations than any other country in the world. It’s a double edged sword for some in the LGBT community though – the operations have become a controversial solution for gay men trying to reconcile their faith with their sexuality and the government refuses to recognise transgender people who don’t want surgery.’
Extreme religion and an anti gay agenda is definitely pushing this.

Effeminate gay men are being transed in the same way that butch lesbians are being transed. Why there isn't more outrage about this from the (male) gay community, I don't know

Quack - if your DD doesn't mind, it's OK if people know that your young DD is wearing pink / blue / yellow underwear. Don't feel that you have to go down the "modesty shorts" route with a little girl

What ToeCleavage said. I've only watched half though, will watch the rest later and come back.

Munchausen by Proxy is written all over this.

This.

FloralBunting

"It's quite frustrating to me that in Christian circles, there is either still a fairly firm rejection of homosexuals, and a hard pass on transgenderism, or an acceptance of homosexuality and an uncritical swallowing of the transgender ideology."

As a Christian I completely agree. "Being entirely fine with homosexuality and also entirely GC is as rare as anything I can think of." It is but I'm with you.

NotTerfNorCis

Agreed Kai's (sp?) mannerisms did seem natural and not contrived.
Seems like a lovely child. The mothers homophobia was nauseating.

Okay, the boy is very feminine in his mannerisms, and that's not put-on - it looks natural. But it's still a massive leap to say he has a 'girls' brain in a boy's body'. Most if he'd been born into another family, one that wasn't deeply homophobic, he would never have got the notion that he's actually female.

I won’t watch the video. Your description of it all has made me feel sick. Why on earth would you beat your child for playing with a toy you don’t deem correct. My daughter and I live somewhere where girls where skirts to school and boys wear trousers. She is five soon and struggles with tights. I have always bought her boy clothes or jammies if she likes them etc and hated sending her to school in tights knowing she would be flashing her underwear to everyone. I didn’t like that whenever I had to go out after picking her up she would stop in the streets to fix herself and everyone could see the colour of her underwear. So, I asked her if she wanted to wear trousers. Her response really upset me, this child that has been encouraged to play or wear whatever she wants actually turned to me and said “but trousers are for boys mummy” I looked at her and I said “but you wear trousers at home” she giggled and said “oh yeah” so I asked her again, she said she would so I got in touch with the school and spoke to the head and questioned why she couldn’t. The head was lovely, she doesn’t agree with a lot of things in our country and is now going to try and fight to get the uniform rules changed. In the meantime she told me to send in my daughter wearing trousers. She also said that if any parents questioned me I’m to send them her way and she will allow them to do the same. My daughter keeps saying she is worried people will think she is a boy, I told her not to worry and that she is a girl because she is one, not by what she wears. We went to the uniform shop and they don’t sell girls trousers, I asked about the boy ones but they were made differently and I did not know that, I assumed all young children are androgynous so all clothes made the same but clearly not. So I went to Asda and they had a limited selection of girls ones, but pissed at how fitted they are and then remembered my own as a kid being the same (didn’t grow up where I live now) so I bought them. At home when I asked if she was excited to wear trousers to school she got upset that people will think she is a boy, I did relent a little and said “don’t be silly, we bought you girl trousers” and that made her happy. Her trousers have a little silver butterfly and the others a heart on them so she isn’t worried anymore. I realise I have waffled a bit but, it hurts to hear that people are teaching their kids the opposite to mine and by doing so are making my child feel worried. I just wish these stereotypes would fuck off! My daughter is a bit of a typical girly girl, but she knows and does play with anything that interests her, I don’t want people filling her head with crap and her losing the strong interest in science she has and has had for many years now.

I worked for a vicar. He said that he would definitely perform a gay wedding. I’d love to ask him what he thought of the whole ‘whoops, god made a booboo’ theory. I suspect he wouldn’t see it that way.

I rely on my belief in God and the teachings of the Bible to protect my daughter and her friends from whacked-out trans people who might otherwise come to their school to do some conversion therapy.
I feel deeply betrayed by the Archbishop et al with their supportive ‘this is how we can get gays into church’ rubbish. If you want gays in church, invite them.

At the moment I am fascinated by the mixed narrative of 'God made a mistake' quotes, coupled with the mainstream Christian teaching that God made you as you are.

What appears to be emerging is a theology/general narrative where the child is said to have expressed the belief that 'God made a mistake', and adults pressing a version of 'God made you as you are' that doesn't mean 'You are a boy who likes baby dolls', it means, 'God made you a girl, but with a condition that means you appear to be a boy so we would treat your body to conform according to all the things we have discovered'.

It's close enough to the mainstream teaching of accepting our material bodies as they are, mixed in with an understanding of a 'fallen' world, that it flies very well in those religious communities who still can't cope with teh gay or non conforming among us, but wish to be seen as more progressive.

It's quite frustrating to me that in Christian circles, there is either still a fairly firm rejection of homosexuals, and a hard pass on transgenderism, or an acceptance of homosexuality and an uncritical swallowing of the transgender ideology.

The only other permutation seems to be this awful pro-trans homophobia.

Being entirely fine with homosexuality and also entirely GC is as rare as anything I can think of. I'm penned in on either side among other Christians.

Beating a small child - by someone who is supposd to love and cherish them. I can’t see that morphing into something unpleasant/unhealthy in future relationships can you?

TheHarpy - I agree. And yet it's a fairly common feature in the back stories of various TRAs, such as Paris Lees

I never laid a hand on DS. I was at a lecture about child/teen development and one thing really stuck - conflict is often when the child isn’t what you think they should be (different from you).

I can’t imagine beating my lovely little child for the toys they want to play with or the clothes they like.

So how do the religious loons reconcile god making a mistake (oops, gave that one a willy by mistake) and god being infallible? The question of whether God had made a mistake was asked at the event I went to - it was dismissed straight away - Christians don't really think in terms of God making mistakes. People get ill, and babies are born with major problems, and horrible thigs happen , and the faithful make sense of it in lots of different ways. Any life experience can be incorporated into someone's faith. Like someone said upthread it might be a trial, or part of Gods plan for the person, or maybe they don't view it as being caused by God directly, but turn to him to help them get through it.

The 'born in the wrong body' suggests a mistake by god (someone somewhere said it sounded like an accident in a cosmic bottling factory) but you could just as easily view it as 'some of god's children are trans' and then you don't have to ask the question why and how?

Conservative religious households/communities are the perfect context for making kids question whether they really are the sex they are. Because they exaggerate the differences between men and women, and define the roles very separately. Its might be easier for a Texan Southern Baptist family to say: 'that's my daughter with the long hair playing with the dolly', than 'that's my son, with the long hair playing with the dolly'.

This article was linked to here on mumsnet and is really good
www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/t-m-murray/why-are-religious-conservatives-embracing-transgender-rights

No, he didn’t prevent others from messing with him.

He messed with Job surely?

God isn't literally infallible, as in never makes mistakes. God sometimes sets his true believers challenges to test their faith (such as them having no money, or cancer, or being beaten by their parents)
I’m sorry but this is just not true. God may allow suffering to continue, but he is never the cause.