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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Natural lifestyles vs. transitioning kids - how are the two reconciled?

40 replies

cockblocker · 26/10/2018 22:18

I’m a little confused by the incongruity between putting a child on a lifetime course of medication as a route which allows them to express their true identity and thus happiness, whilst simultaneously natural remedies and self-acceptance are celebrated. I know someone who is very vocal about the importance of natural ingredients in cosmetics, is vegan, a nature lover with very new agey beliefs and is also a champion of body positivity. Additionally, this person is supportive of gay rights and their daughter, who is autistic, has come out as gay. The child is currently seeking the advice of the gender clinic, and whilst I’ve always considered this mother to be a great parent, I don’t understand how she can elevate the importance of natural purity and self-acceptance in other areas, yet sees a path to medication with uncertain long-term health prospects as the way to deal with gender dysphoria (I admit I don't know this person well and am not trying to judge). Does it all come down to the way in which we have been marketed consumer goods to express our identity, so that any choice which provides self-affirmation is a valid one? Isn’t that just nonsense if so many of these choices then contradict each other? Fast feminists praise those who go on Instagram make-up free and use the hashtag #strongnotskinny to promote healthy fit bodies over starving ones. At the same time, there is also a parallel rise in cosmetic surgery procedures, yet those who follow the natural route to personal acceptance often don't speak out about this. How can choice itself be the ultimate holy grail, when the choice involves spending vast amounts of money and endangering one’s health by submitting to patriarchal ideas of what it is to be a woman? Is choice the reason why such an unhealthy and artificial solution to gender dysphoria is so easily swallowed as a modern-day fairy tale, when the reality is so drastically unhealthy? Furthermore, is this the end result of post-feminism, that it has allowed for a pornographic version of femininity to become the mainstream, and for those young girls who thus feel horrified at the prospect of having to become a sex doll in order to be accepted volunteer instead to be maimed so as to present themselves as men? I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult as a parent to choose how to best deal with a child with gender dysphoria or AGP and I don’t wish to insult anybody for the incredibly difficult decisions they have to make, but I find it hard to understand how anyone can justify these conflicting stances.

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Blanketbox · 27/10/2018 07:20

I think capitalism is a huge driver of all this. It’s all about consumer choice. Even the natural ‘alternative’ choice generally involves buying a lot of stuff. It also leads to a position in which the self is sovereign, hence the cultish worship of identity above more traditional values of community/ moral responsibility.

borntobequiet · 27/10/2018 07:05

Religions and cults do this. I was brought up a Catholic and from an early age was troubled by the contradiction that the love of God was all encompassing, yet if one could not believe one was condemned to an eternity in the fires of Hell undergoing unimaginable torture, which I was told on a regular basis. Now I would just go WTF, bog off with your bullying nastiness. Then, I became clinically depressed.

Materialist · 27/10/2018 01:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cockblocker · 27/10/2018 00:01

Yes, it makes me feel sad for my friend, they're only in their late thirties and have a lot of problems. Especially as they're not actually gender dysphoric. I know this person very well and it's more of a kink for them, seems like a big risk for something so unnecessary. But at least they are an adult and can be fully informed of the risks and use their judgement to make that decision, kids can't be expected to do that.

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TerfedOff · 26/10/2018 23:40

Yes when you look at how the East German athletes from the 80s fared.

There is evidence to indicate that for both men and women, athletes' fertility was affected by the performance-enhancing drugs. A 2008 qualitative study of 52 former East German athletes found those who were able to have children reported a higher rate of disability and chronic disease.

Also the athletes themselves suffered very serious organ damage, mostly of the heart, i.e. calcified heart, coronaries; a large number of dialysis patients, i.e. kidneys or liver are damaged; and many, many psychological illnesses, some of them extreme. Severe depression, heart conditions, degenerative bone disease and infertility.

cockblocker · 26/10/2018 23:17

I have a MTF friend who has had a lot of health problems due to taking hormones.

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TerfedOff · 26/10/2018 23:04

I 100% agree with you here and it's also something that I have wondered. It's like the critical thinking has just been switched off in these people. this is such an unhealthy unnatural lifestyle to be promoting.

The Medical Profession are seriously worried about the prospect of not being able to do any operations at all even urgent lifesize saving operations because of the problems with antibiotics becoming resistant. So to be encouraging people down a route where they're going to need unnecessary operations to healthy bodies seems crazy.

Plus of course in order to validate this delusion these people become lifetime medical patients and we don't know what the consequences will be of putting children on puberty blockers and of putting adults on cross sex hormones for the rest of their lives. I have read about men for example who have had to come off them in their 50s because of health reasons who then wake up and wonder what on earth they've done to themselves.

cockblocker · 26/10/2018 22:46

Jamdani - if it wasn't clear, I mean her daughter has both come out as gay and trans, wanting to be a boy, hence visiting the gender clinic.

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cockblocker · 26/10/2018 22:39

newtlover - yes, I agree. I suppose there is an ideology behind all her (consumer) interests that bring her comfort too, as there is with trans ideology. I think she's really looking for spiritual consolation.

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newtlover · 26/10/2018 22:36

commercialism
buying identity- 'natural' stuff, which actually costs more, but is easier than growing/making it yourself
= pay money to buy/fix your gender issues, rather than doing the hard work of challenging gender

cockblocker · 26/10/2018 22:35

Jamdani - I wasn't suggesting it is. I simply meant that she has no homophobic reasons to have her daughter 'converted'.

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cockblocker · 26/10/2018 22:33

I agree that this can come from narc parents and it's something I worry about. With this person it's not coming from a sense of self-aggrandisement I think, so much as these causes give her fragile sense of identity and lack of self-esteem a sense of comfort.

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Jamdani · 26/10/2018 22:33

What a weird, confused post, OP. Being gay is not the same thing as transitioning.

FesteringCarbuncle · 26/10/2018 22:29

I have wondered the same. They also seem ok with putting pink or blue hair dye on young childrenHmm

UpstartCrow · 26/10/2018 22:27

When you realise that in this case the various causes and lifestyle choices are a result of a desire to be seen as special and above the common herd, then it makes sense.