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Original poster

Reply from BBC on "clashes on both sides"

41 replies

Binglebong · 25/10/2018 10:25

Got a reply from the BBC about a complaint.

Thank you for contacting us regarding BBC One's 'BBC News at Six' on 18 October.

We understand you feel the report on transgender laws implicated women’s rights campaigners with violent behaviour.

Thanks for rising these concerns. Looking at the report, on the Hyde Park and Bristol 'clashes', we have already indicated that the subject is 'highly controversial' and that the 'trans debate' has become a 'bitter and divided one'. The report hears from Jess Phillips, MP, who says that concerns expressed about the impact on women's refuges and prisons are 'perfectly reasonable questions'. Looking at wider reports in the press, they report on incidents taking place on both sides so 'clashes' would reflect the events in that context.

That said, we value your feedback about this issue. All complaints are sent to senior management and programme teams every morning and I included your points in this overnight report.

These reports are among the most widely read sources of feedback in the BBC and ensures that your complaint has been seen by the right people quickly. This helps inform their decisions about current and future programmes.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Ereshkigal · 12/11/2018 14:23

presented in the context of being a comment by the interviewee, Steff Barnett – their understanding of the issue.

That's such bullshit. They have a responsibility not to spread false information.

ShimmyShimmyYa · 12/11/2018 12:26

don't mean to derail- too much!- but is Jess Phillips taking something of a stand?- certainly looks like it- i'd written her off- but always very happy to be proven wrong!!

Mumfun · 12/11/2018 12:19

Well done Pencils! I got this back re the Stonewall suicide rate: The reference to the statistics on the numbers of trans people committing or trying to commit suicide is presented in the context of being a comment by the interviewee, Steff Barnett – their understanding of the issue.

That said, we note your comments that you feel this refers to a survey by stonewall that’s inaccurate.

So they dont care they use the same inaccurate statistics again and again.

Freespeecher · 12/11/2018 12:17

You beat me to it Pam! I was just going to say it was almost Trumpian with them essentially saying there were bad people on both sides (as opposed to the Donald's 'good people on both sides').

theOtherPamAyres · 12/11/2018 12:07

The only other commentator today who minimises violence against a targetted community is Donald Trump. The bias shown in the article is Trumpian, misleading and emboldens trans activist in their violence against women.

Original poster
Binglebong · 12/11/2018 11:21

Latest:

Thank you for taking time to contact us again recently. This is an update to let you know that although we had referred your complaint to the relevant people, we regret that it may be a little longer before we can reply.

We investigate and reply to most complaints at this stage of the complaints service within 20 working days (around four weeks), but cannot do so every time. It depends on what your complaint was about or how many others we are investigating, and can sometimes be affected by practical issues. For example a production team may already be working on another programme or have gone on location.

We apologise for this and have been in touch with the relevant staff again. We therefore ask you not to contact us further in the meantime.

For full details of our complaints process please visit: www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle-complaint/.

In the meantime thank you for contacting us - we appreciate your patience.

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R0wantrees · 28/10/2018 08:42

It may be worth submitting a complaint that references this investigation specifically?

PencilsInSpace · 28/10/2018 08:40

That is really interesting R0wan. I wonder if there's any way we have input, beyond plugging away at individual complaints.

Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 16:47

Interesting, thanks Rowan. Hopefully I will get a reply back soon enough so I can then pass it up to Ofcom and it can be included.

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R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 16:14

apologies, I didn't realise I'd imported the noise above the headline.

R0wantrees · 27/10/2018 16:13

Are you aware of this?

26/10
'Ofcom to review depth of analysis and impartiality of BBC news and current affairs output'
(extract)

DIGITAL JOURNALISM SUMMIT
Topshop boss Sir Philip Green named in Parliament as businessman behind gag on Telegraph #MeToo allegations Top magazine editors back campaign to cut ‘digital reading tax’ ahead of Chancellor's budget
OCTOBER 26, 2018 BROADCAST JOURNALISM NEWS RADIO JOURNALISM TELEVISION JOURNALISM

Ofcom to review depth of analysis and impartiality of BBC news and current affairs output
By Charlotte Tobitt Twitter SHARE THIS
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COMMENTS 5

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––

Ofcom is set to review the BBC’s news and current affairs output to ensure it remains a relevant and “trusted destination for audiences” in today’s “complex and rapidly changing” news environment, it has said.

The broadcast regulator said the BBC must ensure it dedicates enough resources to maintain its position as a trusted and impartial news provider as national debates become more polarised.

In its first annual report on the BBC, which was self-regulated until April last year, Ofcom said the review will inform its verdict on whether the BBC has delivered on its first public purpose under the Royal Charter: “To provide impartial news and information to help people understand and engage with the world around them.” (continues)
pressgazette.co.uk/ofcom-to-review-depth-of-analysis-and-impartiality-of-bbc-news-and-current-affairs-output/?

Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 15:14

Good plan. It just makes me angry how hard they've made it. I know a lot of people who would give up.

I have a lot of rage these days.

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PencilsInSpace · 27/10/2018 11:12

For anyone struggling with the form there is also the option of sending a good old fashioned letter (from the BBC Complaints Framework ):

BBC Complaints
PO Box 1922
Darlington
DL3 0UR

Reply from BBC on "clashes on both sides"
Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 10:47

Ffs that form is convoluted. Really makes it easy for people who are less literate. Angry

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PencilsInSpace · 27/10/2018 10:41

Don't forget to include the reference number to your initial complaint. Good luck!

Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 10:37

That's excellent Pencils, I'm sending it now. Thank you.

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Charliethefeminist · 27/10/2018 10:19

Pencils, Betty, bingle, I so agree and applaud you

PencilsInSpace · 27/10/2018 09:49

Thank you for your response to my complaint. Unfortunately this fails to address the points I have raised.

The subject of the proposed amendments to the GRA may be 'highly controversial' however that is irrelevant to the point I made, namely that all the acts of violence and intimidation in this 'bitter and divided' debate have been perpetrated by one side - the pro transgender rights activists.

It's good to hear that Jess Phillips believes women are raising 'perfectly reasonable questions', however this also does nothing to address the severe bias in your reporting which erroneously suggested that women's groups have been violent and intimidatory.

You state that the press have reported on incidents on 'both sides' yet fail to provide any evidence of this. Please provide details of which violent and intimidatory 'incidents' have been carried out by women's groups.

I reiterate my complaint, that this news report was severely biased and wrongly suggested that both sides were violent when this is not the case.

Finally, you have failed to address my point that Dr Nicola Williams was not afforded the respect of being captioned with her full title.

FadingMint · 27/10/2018 01:38

The formality of recording a crime as a male or female crime according to how the accused identifies, rather than by their physical, biological human body in reality, is a lie and a travesty.
A crime carried out by men wearing dresses and high heels does not become a crime carried out by women.

Woman does not equal dresses and high heels.

FFS!

BettyFloop · 27/10/2018 01:26

We need to step up our complaints (with thanks to Pencils and Binglebong )
The BBC are no longer reporting accurately or dispassionately. Actually, the BBC are now redundant in news/current affairs reporting.

zzzzz · 27/10/2018 01:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 00:22

Thanks.

OP posts:
Original poster
Binglebong · 27/10/2018 00:22

Here you are:

Complaint Summary: Severe bias suggesting both sides were violent.

Full Complaint: On a report on gender reassignment (nice to finally see it reported) the sentence "Those with opposing views have clashed" was used over images of violent assaults. However these were not clashes, these were acts of intimidation and violence aimed at preventing peaceful meetings to discuss potential law changes that would affect women. All of these incidents, which in one case has resulted in a conviction, were perpetrated by the pro transgender rights side. In addition Dr Nicola William's title was missed out on her caption, I hope this was a mistake and not an attempt to minimise the intellectual abilities of the pro women side.

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 26/10/2018 22:03

If you can post the text of your original complaint, or a summary, I'm happy to help with a next stage letter over the weekend.

PencilsInSpace · 26/10/2018 21:59

We need to expose this 'both sides' thing for the bullshit it is. If you have the energy please escalate this:

What if I’m dissatisfied with the BBC's reply?

Please contact us in writing and explain why, either online or by post within 20 working days and quoting your case number. We’ll reply again, this time usually within 20 working days.

If you remain dissatisfied you may be able escalate to the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU) at stage 2. If so we’ll tell you how. For full information please read the BBC Complaints Framework.

BBC send you through a convoluted 2 stage internal complaints procedure before you're allowed to go to Ofcom. That's why they get away with so much more shit than other broadcasters*. People just give up.

Let's not give up, let's pursue BBC complaints as far as we need to. If that results in a flood of complaints to Ofcom about the BBC then that is newsworthy. If Ofcom fail to act on those complaints that is even more newsworthy.

Why the fuck are the BBC given 2 extra layers of protection before we can go to Ofcom? Why are we trusting them to do their own homework? Especially in light of the things we have recently learnt about BBC culture and the types of abuse that has facilitated. Over decades.

It's worth reading the BBC Complaints Framework (PDF) if you have time. If not, the basic rules are:

  • stick to the points you made in your original complaint
  • explain how the response does not satisfy your complaint, e.g. doesn't address the points raised, proposed solution is inadequate, raises further issues wrt women and girls' rights, child safeguarding ...
  • stick to the deadlines.

Keep an eye on whether the BBC and Ofcom stick to their own deadlines. If they don't, or if they breach their own complaints procedures in any way, pull them up on it and keep a record.

  • If you have complaints about other broadcasters, e.g. Butterfly on ITV, you can go straight to Ofcom - copy the broadcaster in if you're feeling polite but don't fuck about, escalate complaints as far as you can, as soon as you can.
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