Poll: 52% of people consider a person who was born male and has male genitalia but identifies as a woman to be a man

Brexit was not in fact a survey though

Oh well, 52% of people can't be wrong. Look at Brexit ...

I game as might off said before.
Recently moved one of me bases into another clan

In one clan 47 men
In another 46 men
Just recently I have noticed greetings hello ladzy and guys oh and the transgenders
But the transgenders is deffo used as an insult
The men in both clans ar3 working class like plasterer garage workers painters jobs like that
They so don’t buy into the trans woman are woman and think it’s a total,joke
It’s definitely a class thing

x-post

Men are perhaps more hardline GC than women because they know what men are like, and know the folly of allowing anyone who says "I am a woman" to have access to previously single sex spaces.

Interestingly, men are also more likely to support the liberalisation of abortion laws and other areas which rad fems campaign on

It's almost as if women sit at either ends of the GC bell curve with men sitting in the middle

Maybe the explanation of both the sex and age differences in responses is down to men, and women with more experience of men, having greater understanding of what men are?

I'd like to see the breakdown by age and sex - is there a difference in responses by women in different age groups?

I think you're right about men knowing what men are like. Men with young daughters are often horrified at the thought of other men going into changing rooms where their daughters are undressing. But surely women know what men are like as well - if the statistics about how many women have been victims of sexual assault are anything to go by.

I think it's decent to respect whatever one wants to I'd themselves as, and I suspect women will do this more than men who have often a more black and white approach (huge generalisation I know but the stats seem to bear this out), but in terms of rights, and access to female only areas...no way José!

* Women know what a woman is, so why on earth do so many women think TWAW?*

Utterly fascinating to find that men are more hardline gender critical in their views than women.

Maybe the explanation of both the sex and age differences in responses is down to men, and women with more experience of men, having greater understanding of what men are?

TRAs?

Just like to say a big thank you to Helen for organising this.

Utterly fascinating to find that men are more hardline gender critical in their views than women. Female socialisation perhaps? Rather weird that TRAs don't devote quite so much energy to changing the minds of men.

*beard!!!...not bears, that would be even more confusing!

I have treated tw I have come across in the way they wanted to be treated, as a woman, but its a bit difficult to tell when they dress, sound, look like a man, have a bears and a penis.

Please will someone give me a clue as to who is male is who is female clings tightly to binary concepts

OldCrone, I was stunned to hear people say they were women, I have never actually thought that was ever going to catch on! It is just the sympathy/empathy thing mostly.

Bizzaro biology myths aside.

Try that again...
Do you think a male bodied person committed for rape belongs in a women’s prison?

That's where it comes down to a question of self identified non diagnosed versus medically transitioned.

Someone who committed a rape did have a functioning penis..... with medical transition that is no longer the case

Not getting this at all Wrexham this person, in your analogy, has wrongly self I'd/misdiagnosed then, right? How, as a transwoman 'he' [his penis] raped a woman? In what world does a biologically confirmed female 'rape' another woman, even if she is a lesbian, does she want to penetrate another woman with her penis [that she doesn't have]. how fucked up is this

Oops, see I x-posted with everyone!

I have emailed that off to my Labour MP along with my GRA responses

Here's the link for the pdf if anyone wants it. Safe to download.

uploadfiles.io/wxbzm

Women are socialised to see the best in people and to be nice.

Ah, that explains why I never thought TWAW even when I thought most of them had medically and surgically transitioned, or were planning to. I'm just not nice. Socialisation fail

That's not to say that I thought anything bad of them, I just never believed they were women. In fact, I felt quite sorry for a group of people who hated their bodies so much that they had to go to such extremes - and I still feel that way about genuinely dysphoric transpeople.

^"Do you think a male bodied person committed for rape belongs in a women’s prison?’"

That's where it comes down to a question of self identified non diagnosed versus medically transitioned.

Someone who committed a rape did have a functioning penis..... with medical transition that is no longer the case^

Not getting this at all Wrexham this person, in your analogy, has wrongly self I'd/misdiagnosed then, right? How, as a transwoman 'he' [his penis] raped a woman? In what world does a biologically confirmed female 'rape' another woman, even if she is a lesbian, does she want to penetrate another woman with her penis [that she doesn't have]. how fucked up is this

a) Most transwoman who ‘medically transition’ keep their penis. Many don’t even undergo chemical castration.

Fairplay for Women article with data etc: 'The vast majority of male-born transwomen still have a penis'
fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

And I'd guess women feel empathy towards another group that is painted as oppressed?

wrexhamtrans you seem to be missing the point of the survey. Its to learn more about the public's reponse to the specific questions asked at a particular point in time.

Women know what a woman is, so why on earth do so many women think TWAW?

Women are socialised to see the best in people and to be nice.

All I have done was to suggest the questions considered transgender as too broad a group and that would significantly impact the study

But that was the whole point of the study. Those who have fully transitioned and have a GRC are a tiny minority of the trans population.

This survey considers transgender as broadly as the law will.

We know the differences Wrexham. That's why we polled on these questions. Because Stonewall and the rest of the trans lobby never differentiate on any identity., it's all self iD,. If you want stonewall to differentiate go tell them, they are not listening to us, quite the opposite, they have smeared us as haters.

That's a large percentage of people smeared as haters by the trans lobby on your behalf wrexham. I think that's your discussion, we already know.

men seem a lot clearer on what they think a woman is that women do

This baffles me. Women know what a woman is, so why on earth do so many women think TWAW?

Someone who committed a rape did have a functioning penis..... with medical transition that is no longer the case

Really?

a) Most transwoman who ‘medically transition’ keep their penis. Many don’t even undergo chemical castration.

b) A rapist who has his penis removed is still a rapist. He has still shown the utmost contempt for women’s boundaries. He is still very dangerous. There are ways of seriously hurting women, and of sexually violating them, that do not involve rape.

I can’t imagine the terror of vulnerable women locked up with a rapist with no means of escape, whether or not he still has a penis.

Women get this, instinctively.