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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 09:03

Right to transition without spouse's consent

They already have that.
Spousel consent relates to marriage and dissolving or retaining it not whether the person needs their spouses permission to transition.

Right not to be treated as mentally ill requiring 2 psychologists to refer them

Given the amount of medical care a transperson may require and the dramatic unchangeable affects it will have is it not ethical to ensure a person is of sound mind?
For my abortion i also needed 2 Drs to sign off on it.

Need for prohibitive amount of documentation and financial cost that is out of reach of some homeless trans young people who have no parental support a result of their being trans.

Things cost money. Everyone has to pay for things like name changes, death certs, passports, birth certificates. Transpeople can have their income means tested so they receive a significant reduction in cost for their GRC.

Why should it be free when its not free for everyone else?

Sorry but none of what you have listed are legal rights. They are wants.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 09:03

Rhythmstix are you Mrskeats?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/10/2018 09:03

Right to transition without spouse's consent
Trans people absolutely do have this right. They can socially transition, take hormones etc without their spouses consent.

If they wish to obtain a GRC and their spouse objects they will need to get divorced first, which is absolutely correct. It is not fair on either party to allow someone to make a fundamental change to a contract without allowing the other party the ability to remove themselves from the contract.

Right not to be treated as mentally ill requiring 2 psychologists to refer them
Now this is not true. As above, this step is only required for a GRC, which in fact every transwoman I've come across throughout this mess doesn't have. People can dress as they like, call themselves what they like, behave as they like and do what they like to their bodies without going through this step.

If you want to make a fundamental change to a legal document (i.e. your birth certificate), some gatekeeping is appropriate

Need for prohibitive amount of documentation and financial cost that is out of reach of some homeless trans young people who have no parental support a result of their being trans

again, is a GRC and changing their birth certificate at the top of these people's list of priorities? They can adhere to the gender stereotypes associated with the opposite sex with little or no additional cost.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 09:01

Mary Whitehouse was instrumental in raising the minimum age of Page 3 girls to 18.

Do you think she was wrong to believe that there should be a minimum age for girls to make life changing decisions regarding their bodies?

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 09:01

Splattering the board with ad hominems doesn't convince the lurkers. Jus' sayin'.

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 08:59

I've typed several responses, all of which would probably get deleted, so suffice to say that you've been well and truly indoctrinated by Mermaids, haven't you?

RhythmStix · 25/10/2018 08:57

"do you really need to ask" - yes shineynewname I do because I haven't seen the programme and I am interested in why so many people are criticising it. Is that ok with you? I'm sorry if I'm not a member of your gang. Not that I want to be - there is so much bullying on this thread.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:56

Mrskeats, can I ask you what specific knowledge and experience you have of transgender young people?

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 08:56

And if it’s not an illness why are you treating it medically?

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 08:54

Puberty blockers sterilise kids. There is not a delaying effect. Then cross sex hormones finish the job. Why is this hard to comprehend? Look at nhs guidelines if you don’t believe me.
And what’s the Mary whitehouse obsession about? So childish.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:53

Right to transition without spouse's consent
Right not to be treated as mentally ill requiring 2 psychologists to refer them. Need for prohibitive amount of documentation and financial cost that is out of reach of some homeless trans young people who have no parental support a result of their being trans.

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 08:50

I already did.

Is that to me?

Sorry I did not see your answer addressing what rights transpeople are missing out on.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:48

I already did.

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:48

Hormone blockers are to delay puberty. It is about enabling youngsters to have time to make the decision and reduce the bodily changes of puberty.

Aspie, why don't you start campaigning against plastic surgery instead?

RiverTam · 25/10/2018 08:47

anorexia is a severe mental health condition, which sounds like a pretty accurate description of sex dysphoria.

qumquat · 25/10/2018 08:47

Cross post kardashian! Either the suicide risk is high or it isn't.

CosmicCanary · 25/10/2018 08:45

So many Mary Whitehouse clones here

What a childidh response.

Fem could you answer my earlier question as to what rights arr transpeople losing/not entitled to?

qumquat · 25/10/2018 08:45

I thought the 'supportive' line was that children would commit suicide if they weren't affirmed as their new gender? By that argument gender dysphoria has a potentially extremely high mortality rate, reduced only by parents acting like the mum in Butterfly. If this isn't true (it isn't) then that's fantastic. But you appear to be agreeing with us that the suicide risk has been erroneously inflated.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 08:43

Anorexia is an illness which has a very high mortality rate. Gender dyphoria is neither of these. I’m so confused. I thought these life changing hormones, blockers, etc were given as the only other option was sucicide and it was better to be alive and on this awful medication than dead.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 08:42

Are there any other conditions that aren’t illnesses that require medical treatment?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:42

So many Mary Whitehouse clones here

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 08:41

The World Health Organisation doesn't think it is an illness, but does think that anorexia is an illness.

TufVoyaging · 25/10/2018 08:41

I got much the same brush off;

Thank you for your email regarding the drama, Butterly.

We thought it worth clarifying in light of your comments that the Red Production Company consulted widely with experts, including child mental health experts and gender identity clinics, as well as with children and families about their lived experience during the making of the drama.

I can confirm that your comments and concerns have been logged here at ITV and will be fed back to the relevant teams.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to contact us here at ITV Viewer Services.

If we can be of further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie

ITV Viewer Services Supervisor

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 08:40

If gender dysphoria is not an illness why does it require medical treatment?

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 08:37

Feeling suicidal because you think you are in the wrong body is common.
And children who feel like this should be supported but they shouldn’t be told they can ‘turn into’ the opposite sex.
Transitioning makes trans people much happier.
But what does ‘transitioning’ even mean? Does it mean a boy who grows his hair, paints his nails, puts make-up on?

I’d be really interested in statistics for people like Belindabauer as there are so many adults who felt like that as a young child/teen and who would have been ‘trans’ if growing up now but I’m guessing the vast majority are happy as a woman/man now. The human brain doesn’t fully develop until mid 20s.

I bet we can all relate to feeling so strongly about things as a teenager and being unable to comprehend we may feel differently as we got older. I know if I had to live the way I thought I wanted to 16/17/18 I would be really unhappy now.