Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

It's interesting that throughout these boards the posters quote the right wing press almost exclusively to support their arguments.

The National Review is. very conservative US rag. Of course it is anti trans. What a surprise.

Did I see correctly that the parents went to a Mermaids group session and came away with a referral to a clinic in America because the child was refused puberty blockers in the UK? Surely, that is a very wrong message to scared parents.

At least it showed what sort of organisation Mermaids really is.

Hi sillyolme

I know we disagree greatly on some matters. But thank you for popping by again.

just like to say a lot of what we talk about here is UK based, were there is a lot of pre teens being affirmed as and lots of parents being emotionally blackmailed into confirming there child to be in the wrong body.

Has there been studies into the long term effects of puberty blockers on the brain development and normal healthy growth of bones?

what about jazz Jennings? who can't have the full surgery because the penis never developed enough to invert? and they will never know sexual feeling.

I'm not transphobic and if my child felt this I wouldn't allow puberty blockers, but would support them until late teens early 20 for them to make their adult choice of hormones and surgery.

if a child is on puberty blockers, for years putting off development of the body and brain, then transfer them on to cross hormones at the age that is deemed legal. (bearing in mind the child brain hasn't matured through puberty) then once on cross hormones they are then sterilised.

www.nationalreview.com/corner/american-academy-of-pediatrics-transgender-statement-parents-beg-doctors-to-listen/

Yes, I know about puberty blockers and what they do to a developing child. That is the main issue I have with Butterfly. They didn't go into detail about what puberty blockers do. They don't only delay puberty so they have more time to think it over. They mask one problem and create a whole set of life long others. The drama just made out that the clinic was being unreasonable as a result of the dad's stance and as a result they had to leg it over to the states that night. Some of it was really unbelievable yet someone going through this with their DC may have watched it and now be in all kinds of panic.

Piss poor writing on a very delicate and important subject. There is one more episode to go. Don't blink or make a tea or you will miss his whole transition.

Jazz Jennings is also a very sad case.

An Interesting critique, BooEekCackle, and almost makes me glad they put this programme on if it is making parents want to get more information about the subject.

Puberty blockers make a child sterile, cause osteoporosis and these medicines have never been tested for the purpose of blocking puberty.

There are questions about their effect on children's mental development.

For a really sad story, look at the "I am Leo" series on youtube. It is all sweetness and light but the poor thing is now a gorgeous looking 18-year-old girl with no libido whatsoever.

I'm going to have to jump in to correct some serious disinformation being shared here... not your fault really... as so much of what the public sees about transsexuality ("transgender" is a larger and not always applicable group).

A bit above, my website was referenced as a "breath of fresh air" (thanks for the shout out).

Here is a link to an essay I wrote regarding that misinformation making the rounds of parents of transkids:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2018/06/09/transphobic-propaganda-aimed-at-parents-of-transgender-kids/

One of the posters above stated a VERY misleading comment as to kids dissisting GD "at t least 70% will desist if not put on medication".... ummmm... NO!

First, the phenomena of desisting from GD largely happens BEFORE onset of puberty:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2011/02/28/age-of-innocence/

Thus... medical intervention was never an issue as such interventions would only be considered at the onset of puberty at the earliest. Second, there is a natural truism involved in that only the most gender dysphoric of gender atypical children ever receive puberty blockers at such clinics where such research would be conducted... but OF COURSE those teens who had not been on puberty blockers were the one who had already desisted or were in the process of desisting.

Finally, I'm having trouble accepting the narrative that a transkid unilaterally decided to blow off his/her parents... As in many cases of divorce, it was always the other party's fault if we only hear one side of the story. I know that my mother tells everyone that I was the shithead... but the truth was far more complicated:

sillyolme.wordpress.com/2018/06/06/rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

My father and I get along great... and he tells me that he is proud of me, not so my mother. (They divorced when I was a teen.) When I got married to Jeff, he proudly gave me away. My mother was at the wedding... in fact it was her brother, our Minister, who officiated... but she was absolutely beastly, saying nasty things to and about my friends... but the last straw, the thing that led me never to talk to her again, was that she approached my young foster daughter, Elizabeth, who I adopted, saying cattily to her, "Now that Candice is married to Jeff, which one will you call 'Daddy'??" She tortured me like that as a child and teenager, with snide comments about my gender atypicality, gender dysphoria, and later sexual orientation... but I was NOT going to let her use my status as a transwoman to do the same to my daughter!

I am watching this show and I think it is actually pretty awful. I say that as a person who doesn't want to comment on trans issues either way because I am still undecided on how I think about it.

I think it is awful because it has basically raced through the issue. 2 episodes in and Max(ine)has had parents separate, new girlfriend, moved schools, hidden his true feelings, come out at school, been to see a psychologist and is now in America. That is too much to take in during 1 hour 20 and I think it sends out a dangerous message to those who are scared and ill informed. Did I see correctly that the parents went to a Mermaids group session and came away with a referral to a clinic in America because the child was refused puberty blockers in the UK? Surely, that is a very wrong message to scared parents.

Personally as a parent I wanted to watch this. As a mother I want to understand and have empathy for children who feel this way. I also want to be informed so I can protect my own children from dangerous adults with agendas. Unfortunately this drama does nothing for anyone because it was actually very poorly done. An opportunity missed.

Now the biggest barrier to her happiness is the lack of acceptance from others

What kind of acceptance is necessary, though? I treat other people as human beings. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt until I know them better. Most people are the same.

the wrong body' does not equate 'the body of someone of the opposite sex'

This ^^
Not feeling like a boy =/= feeling like a girl.

That should read: when Susie's son was 4.

I think for me, it's chilling how young the process starts and how much power and influence adults have.

So at four Susie Green says in an interview that she was "horrified" when watching a Disney Princess film that he said he felt like a girl.

At four my own son dressed in Disney costumes and haf a pink Disney room. I wasn't horrified.

I'd pick him up from after school club and he'd be wearing a different dress. Nobody batted an eyelid. If the school had had concerns and said " we think your son feels like a girl" I would have said don't be ridiculous - this is the opposite of a tom boy (as I was).

But what if I had been horrified and started researching the topic.
I understand Green waited and the story is well documented - but what makes somebody horrified when their child is 4? Why do people exploit that?

Exactly Fem.

I can see why parents agree with a child’s feelings of being transgender, especially when coupled with self harm and suicide threats. CAMHS advice is too not panic or shout at the child when either occur. This is to stop blame or it being a tool for manipulation. It’s very hard to act this way in the moment it’s happening, and I think feels very counterintuitive as it feels like you’re condoning their actions. As a parent you just want your child to be happy and to stop hurting themselves. When your family is in turmoil and you’re given advice from the professionals that takes time to see results you can see why some parents kickback and take the affirmative action.

Having been through the self harm and suicide attempts with dd, I think Butterfly is highly irresponsible in its portrayal without explanation . It’s used as manipulation by Max, though due to his age he probably doesn’t understand fully the implications of his actions or the affect they have on his parents.

I've just started talking to my 8yo DD about puberty and periods. She is upset that she is starting to develop breast buds and horrified at the idea of having blood coming out of her vagina every month. If someone popped up now and offered her something so that she didn't need to go through it all, I have no doubt that she would decide that was what she wanted to do

My niece didn't start menstruating until she was almost 17. Her GP's response each of the times her mother took her there about this was indifference - 'nothing to worry about', he said. Niece wasn't the least bothered, mostly because the thought of menstruation disgusted her.

When she sustained her third stress fracture of the foot, her parents took her to a private specialist (GP grudgingly agreed to refer) who sent her for a bone density scan - it revealed perilously low density, the result of her failure to enter full puberty.

She was placed on a special diet, etc and after a few months, put on enough weight to begin her periods. She was lucky - if it had gone on longer, she might have been damaged permanently.

I report all this because this was what happened to a child whose puberty didn't happen properly...

AnchorMum, I would have done exactly the same in your shoes. I couldn't possibly support medical transition for a child of mine.

We know that at least 70% will desist if not put on medication so your decision was the wisest course. As your child matures, they will know you did everything in your power to protect them.

I hope, as you presumably do too that they don't change their mind but there's a good chance they will as all this is being done to people who are still very immature.

I've just started talking to my 8yo DD about puberty and periods. She is upset that she is starting to develop breast buds and horrified at the idea of having blood coming out of her vagina every month. If someone popped up now and offered her something so that she didn't need to go through it all, I have no doubt that she would decide that was what she wanted to do

Meanwhile I feel that I am an excellent singer and remain baffled why I don't have a recording contract already because by any objective standard I am a terrible singer but y'know, self ID means I must be what I feel

That Rachel glitter thing is obnoxious

OldCrone I would never be so naive as to believe I have the knowledge to know how to deal with this situation.

I believe every case would be different and could not be given a "one fits all" response. In the case of the show and the family story it is telling, I think honestly I would have probably acted similarly to the father to begin with ( minus the slapping) and then done what the mother did by trying to understand more about why my child is mutilating himself and try to prevent this from happening. As I love my child unconditionally but would definitely not understand it, so it would be terribly difficult.

I don't think anyone can say what you would do unless you have to walked in them shoes, or sorry you can say what you think you would do but the reality could be very different if the situation arose.

You’ll be glad to hear that Rachel is always there to listen to your gender non conforming children.

The glitter family comment was by Rachel McKinnon , the person who recently won a women’s bicycle race. 4thwavenow.com/2017/05/14/mtof-tells-trans-kids-to-dump-moms-on-mothers-day-and-join-the-glitter-queer-family-of-adult-trans-activists/

Non

I agree that you can't deny a feeling, but you can deny that a feeling is reality.

anchormum
You made a brave decision and hopefully your child will see that eventually.

I wondered why they didn't choose to show a family where the child continued to insist they were the other sex despite loving acceptance of their personality. Wouldn't that have been more convincing and got more sympathy?

Maybe I should contact the ITV to make a mini series about my (lived) experience. This was us for 4 years while dd was our trans ds. I never for one moment doubted that she felt like a boy, you can’t deny how someone feels, however, it’s simply not possible to change sex. We never fought with her, she fought us though and called us all the insults you can think of. It hurt, I think she wanted to alienate herself from us and was desperate for us to react so she could be so oppressed, but we never reacted. 4 years of patience and she desisted. Dd was 11 when all this began, in someways I see us as lucky she was young, we were able to give her the space to decide for herself while still under our roof.

In our drama we’d show the 6 year battle we’ve had for a diagnosis of autism. We and dd are 100% sure she has autism, if only it was possible to self identify as autistic based on how you feel, but no, they put in so many checks and safeguards to ensure correct diagnosis. Dd would have had a diagnosis much sooner and would have had a lot fewer mental health, school and relationship issues if she’d only had to live as someone with autism for 2 years and got two drs to agree with her.

Lots of to Housemum and Anchormum.