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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 19:30

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter is that in response to my question?

If so, do you mean you gave birth to a boy who grew up and said they felt like a girl inside but still wore ‘boys’ clothes, had a ‘boys’ haircut, no ‘girls’ interestes but said ‘they felt like a girl’ (even though they can’t possibly know what this means) and were medicated because of a ‘feeling’? If so, I am literally even more confused (and concerned) than I was before.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 19:22

Of course they care about women - they are women.
But what about the transwonen who compete at sport at a huge advantage meaning the women can’t win due to physical differences? Is that caring about women? They are not women though are they, women are completely different physically to trans women. You can’t actually think they are the same?!

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 19:21

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter

ScipioAfricanus · 25/10/2018 19:18

I am so grateful for the logical, eloquent posters here who are able to elucidate the inconsistencies and the conservative values of the TRA narrative. This has given me the confidence to stand by my view (which was almost all instinct initially, dwelling as I did in a Guardian-land of general leftist bonhomie towards any apparently oppressed people). I have started to engage with the debate in real life though live in fear of my job and career being compromised by doing so. Thank you to you all.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 19:17

However once a gender dysphoric young person is on medication they all continue on a path that will sterilize them, limit or eliminate sexual function and all the other ills of becoming a lifelong medical patient.

@Prawnofthepatriarchy do you (or anyone else) know why this is? So does no one who starts on hormones stop them? Why not?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 19:16

Of course they care about women - they are women.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 19:15

Does anyone know what would happen if a boy presented infront of doctor’s wearing no make up, jeans, short-ish hair, said they liked football and wanted to be a mechanic when they grew up but were adamant they ‘felt like a girl’ and ‘were born in the wrong body’ and it was making them feel suicidal, would they be given hormones?

Do trans-women who never wear make up, nail varnish, heels, dresses exist?

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/10/2018 18:59

Second, there is a natural truism involved in that only the most gender dysphoric of gender atypical children ever receive puberty blockers at such clinics where such research would be conducted... but OF COURSE those teens who had not been on puberty blockers were the one who had already desisted or were in the process of desisting.

That's incorrect. What interested and surprised researchers was that you couldn't predict which patients would desist. It wasn't connected to how dysphoric a child was. If it were it might encourage doctors to measure how dysphoric each patient was with an aim to only offer blockers to the worst cases. But that's not so.

Those who desist do not necessarily do so pre puberty. If they socially transition but are not medicated they may continue to be gender dysphoric for years only to reconcile with their bodies in their late teens or early twenties. Many turn out to be gay or lesbian. However once a gender dysphoric young person is on medication they all continue on a path that will sterilize them, limit or eliminate sexual function and all the other ills of becoming a lifelong medical patient. These drugs are not benign. They have multiple grave side effects.

Given what we know I cannot think that puberty blockers are justified for any child. I am very glad the NHS has a watchful waiting policy.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 18:48

It infuriates me that there’s some kind of notion that the Trans cult is all liberal and accepting. It’s quite a sleight of hand they have pulled off really.

FloralBunting · 25/10/2018 18:45

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

This, 100x.

Without gender stereotypes the mechanisms that prop trans ideology up would collapse like a dodgy deckchair.

VickyEadie · 25/10/2018 18:42

The trans lobby are utterly appalling. They don't give a shit about anyone elses safety and rights. They don't give a shit about women. They don't give a shit about children. And they don't give a shit about any transperson that voices their concerns. These points also apply to the labour party. Who also don't give a shit. This isn't progress and anyone who thinks otherwise is an utter bloody fool.

Correct. Their utter contempt whenever safeguarding is raised is a case in point here.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:40

The trans lobby are utterly appalling. They don't give a shit about anyone elses safety and rights. They don't give a shit about women. They don't give a shit about children. And they don't give a shit about any transperson that voices their concerns. These points also apply to the labour party. Who also don't give a shit. This isn't progress and anyone who thinks otherwise is an utter bloody fool.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 18:38

Agreed vicky and they are going to be looked back on in horror.

VickyEadie · 25/10/2018 18:36

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

And their supporters and advocates are the most vocally abusive of anyone even mildly dissenting with their 'trans at all costs' stance.

Mrskeats · 25/10/2018 18:32

The Trans lobby is the least progressive, most conservative group ever. The rigid enforcement of gender stereotypes, the medicalisation of children etc. None of this is progressive in the least.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:28

Unless you happen to be female / gay / jewish

Yep. This. Not the labour I once supported and loved. They can go to fuck now as far as I'm concerned.

LangCleg · 25/10/2018 18:28

Rufus got deleted for yawning. Le sigh.

OlennasWimple · 25/10/2018 18:26

Because they are progressive and more tolerant of the less fortunate in society. Less selfish too

Unless you happen to be female / gay / jewish

Annandale · 25/10/2018 18:26

I see many pro-trans views and indeed Butterfly as quite rightwing. The 'problem' is presented as being in the individual child, not in a brutally sexist society where amoral capitalist corporations run riot with stereotyping in order to maximise profit. The 'problem' is women not agreeing that their bodies mean nothing.

It's why i find it so strange that it is indeed right-wing media that have published articles critical of pressure to trans children. I think it's partly because they are intrinsically more suspicious of change; also because unfortunately there will be a backlash - they are happy that biology means something but may resist a return to the view that biology shouldn't define everything.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:25

Lol bless you. That just ain't true. I need to add deluded to that list as well. You fall into that category (imo)

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:25

This reply has been deleted

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OldCrone · 25/10/2018 18:25

I'm not sure why you think reinforcement of sex-role stereotypes is progressive, fem4. Did you mean 'regressive'?

Feminist4 · 25/10/2018 18:22

Because they are progressive and more tolerant of the less fortunate in society. Less selfish too.

Noqont · 25/10/2018 18:22

Not really. It shows what a shit shower the left has become. No critical thought, no platforming. Ironically the left these days seems more in line with the previous far right. It's certainly not progressive.

OldCrone · 25/10/2018 18:20

What's your explanation of why the left wing press is so supportive of such a homophobic, misogynistic and regressive movement, feminist4?