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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Vixxxy · 26/10/2018 20:47

The way the show handled the suicide attempt was disgusting. I don't understand why this is not allowed to be criticised, given the amount of complaints there was about 13 reasons why for the same kind of thing. The message that came away from it is, if your parents split up..attempt suicide and they will get back together! Suicide is a great way to get what you want!

I feel so sorry for the child involved in this. They should have just been allowed to be a feminine boy. My son is 4 and he likes putting on princess dresses and such. I am not 'horrified' at all. Its utterly normal.

NotMeOhNo · 26/10/2018 20:37

Perhaps they should make a sequel, where the Susie Green character is shown desperately suppressing anyone who tries to speak the truth about what she did.

KayM2 · 26/10/2018 19:32

re the post that asks if there are any TS women who do not wear makeup and dresses. Yes, there certainly are. I never wore a dress to visit the Gender Clinics ( 2000 to 2005) and saw many others who just dress normally. I never wore makeup then, and never do now. I am far from alone. I possess no dresses , and only one skirt, bought for rather posh funeral. Hate it. .

gendercritter · 26/10/2018 18:25

Thank you. Whether F4 read it or not, I don't know

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/10/2018 17:38

Yes, I thought that was a good comment too, gendercritter, and sensitively worded.

Young adults like Jazz Jennings are very vulnerable to exploitation, I fear.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/10/2018 17:35

OlennasWimple - there's a certain dark humour to that. Being followed around the internet by adverts is creepy enough already...

RiverTam · 26/10/2018 17:15

I dunno, she's done a lot of promotion thanking Susie Green and appearing to be completely on board.

papayasareyum · 26/10/2018 17:07

when Anna Friel was delivering the line “I’d rather have a daughter than a dead son” she grimaced, as if she was thinking “who wrote this shit?”
Sometimes you can tell when an actor isn’t keen on their lines!

OlennasWimple · 26/10/2018 16:56

I don't get that ad, Prawn, but one of the suggested groups last time I checked my Facebook was "I'm a happy parent of a trans teen"... Hmm

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 26/10/2018 16:31

Dunno about anyone else but I keep getting an ad at the foot of the page for sublime dining at Harbour Hotels with a repellent looking image of a plate of food. I don't know what it's a photo of (tuna?) but it looks like a raw skate's wing. Or worse. I see it every time I reply to a comment and it's really off putting.

Kardashianlove · 26/10/2018 16:15

Love your post @gendercritter

RiverTam · 26/10/2018 14:15

I am still convinced that there are not as many "real" transgender people as there are teens thinking that they might be

completely agree.

Housemum · 26/10/2018 12:17

So many posts since I last posted - work got in the way. I'm only up to page 3 but didn't want anyone to think that the "you'll drive your child away" comments had made me leave the discussion. Still not sure entirely how I've supposedly driven her away given that she (and she does accept the term she now) has all but given up on talk of being trans. My earlier post said that I'd supported her wearing boys' clothes and I used they/them pronouns but would not say he/him. I never made an issue of it, I just used they.
We are actually a lot closer and although I know that the elephant in the room is her own dissatisfaction with her body, and i don't know exactly what she will choose to do in the future, I am still convinced that there are not as many "real" transgender people as there are teens thinking that they might be.

gendercritter · 26/10/2018 00:28

Now the biggest barrier to her happiness is the lack of acceptance from others.

F4 I feel sad for you and your child. The issue we have with trans people here relates to predatory men and men with sissification fetishes who are threatening our safety. I know most people here feel very much for those with genuine, crippling gender dysphoria. And most of us here will have had issues at puberty or with something else relating to our sex which will have been different to what your child is experiencing but at least means we can empathise with hating your own body.

One of the saddest things for me is that no one will ever accept your child as female. That isn't me being mean, it's just reality. Some people will be polite and pretend your child is female but really humans are too good at discerning sex, for very important reasons. By pushing the narrative you can really literally be born in the wrong body, you are on one level preventing your child from accepting themselves.

Trans women will just never get the acceptance they crave. I can state that with total confidence. You know why? Because a cross-dressing fetish is as old as the hills. People with gender dysphoria are indistinguishable from those with a fetish at first glance, to be very blunt. And we don't, as women, often feel safe around people publically displaying their kinks. Do I think your child has a kink? No, I really don't. But I wouldn't know if they did or not if I met them in real life. Your child won't ever be able to disassociate from kinksters. I don't think shaking off severe dysphoria can be remotely easy but I'd be pouring all my resources into helping them do that rather than validating their confusion. Your child will never get what they want at present. And I get that. I have a disability. I want my healthy body back more than I can say. I feel desperately trapped in the 'wrong' body. But I am my body and it is what it is and really my only path to any peace or happiness is accepting it. I'll probably be working on that for the rest of my life but there you go. I'm not the only one.

Coyoacan · 25/10/2018 21:44

I can't help wondering what the definitions of left-wing and right-wing are?

Where is the contradiction between being in favour of safeguarding and women's spaces and wanting a good strong social safety net?

VelvetReVulva · 25/10/2018 21:14

*paying the

VelvetReVulva · 25/10/2018 21:13

The thing with sport that’s been bothering me is - if you genuinely suffered with gender dysphoria and the hell that apparently is, on being accepted as a woman, would you then want to draw attention to all your actual differences by doing the one thing that basically shows them in all their glory - compete against biological women, and delight in beating them?

Or might you think - wow, I’m able to live as a woman, I’ll integrate as best as I can and support the minority I believe I belong to, by payibgvthe small price of not taking part in competitive sport as my newly assumed gender? I dunno, but? Confused

Noqont · 25/10/2018 20:20

Of course they care about women - they are women.

Nope. They are not women and they absolutely do not care about biological women. I doubt they even care about the female allies tbh, they are just useful to the cause. They only care about transwomen (subset of men) but only those that don't raise any concerns or ask questions. Anyone else is slurred and insulted with name calling such as terf or truscum. Not very caring is it.

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 20:11

Of course they care about women - they are women.

OK so if give you the benefit on that one, on this occasion, I still don't agree. Not when you consider the program is highlighting the experimentation with drugs on children and parading it as either entertainment or being informative.

Jazz Jennings is all you need to say.

The idea that anyone around Jazz gives a fuck is laughable.

Same with this.

AspieAndProud · 25/10/2018 20:02

Of course they care about women - they are women.

They care about the subset of women who are, in fact, men.

scotsheather · 25/10/2018 20:00

Not to defend the suicide issue, but it is after the watershed for a reason. I wouldn't be comfortable showing it to a minor for a host of reasons and its not really aimed at them.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/10/2018 19:57

Of course they care about women - they are women.

No, they're transwomen, not women. And there's no of course about it. Quite the opposite.

I don't deny that there are some transwomen who do care about women. From my observation they appear to be mainly transsexuals. But the TRAs hate women with a passion.

Look at Self ID. No one who cared about the safety of women and girls would be pressing for Self ID. The risks are blatantly obvious to all the ordinary men I've discussed this with. But men who claim to identify as women just don't care.

Look at demands that women don't discuss issues related to having a female body because TRAs don't have one.

Look at the TERF is a slur site where a few of the countless rape and death threats made by transwomen to women are collected.

And look at the Cotton Ceiling, FFS.

Why do feminists, who are mostly left wing and strongly supportive of LGB rights oppose trans ideology? Why? It's because it's essentially a men's sexual rights movement.

Like nearly every woman here, I assumed that I supported trans rights. Until I actually listened to what was being said. What was being demanded. It was their words and deeds that radicalised me.

The many aggressive TRAs come over as hyper masculine rather than feminine: as entitled and particularly nasty misogynists

RedToothBrush · 25/10/2018 19:56

We've made a programme about the fizzy drinks industry featuring Coca Cola in numerous scenes throughout. During production we consulted with Coca Cola Branding to ensure it fitted with their marketing strategy. But we are not promoting Coca Cola. There is no product placement whatsoever.

Give the fuck over.

VelvetReVulva · 25/10/2018 19:50

The thing I find most scary is that if I hadn’t been able to read the carefully (and patiently) reasoned views on here, I would likely think there was something actually bigoted about my views about the legislation changes - when actually, in reality - the whole thing is the biggest Emperor’s (feminine stereotyped) Clothes ruse ever.

The light has dramatically dawned on how socially conditioned I am as a woman to step aside in every way in order to be kind, not upset others, and on and on and on. Only it’s not on anymore, I’ve had enough.

Kardashianlove · 25/10/2018 19:36

Yes, you are describing my trans daughter is that in response to my question?

If so, do you mean you gave birth to a boy who grew up and said they felt like a girl inside but still wore ‘boys’ clothes, had a ‘boys’ haircut, no ‘girls’ interestes but said ‘they felt like a girl’ (even though they can’t possibly know what this means) and were medicated because of a ‘feeling’? If so, I am literally even more confused (and concerned) than I was before.