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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

360 replies

ShineyNewName5032 · 24/10/2018 13:21

As many on here have noted Butterfly is possibly one of the most controversial topics covered on ITV. I wrote to express my concerns this is the response:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your email concerning ITV’s new drama series Butterfly.

The producers consulted with senior clinical psychologists as well as the charity Mermaids. Most importantly, they spoke to families and children about their own lived experiences. The programme does not “promote” Mermaids, although the charity is depicted in a handful of scenes across three episodes. It depicts the family being advised by a range of different professionals, and indeed being offered a range of different advice, both in this country and the United States.

We do not consider that the drama is irresponsible or could “lead to more suicides”. The drama depicts a nuanced and complex story of an unhappy child, whose feelings are increasingly distressing, and which are leading to self-harming. This reflects the lived experience of some young people who are not comfortable in their assigned gender, but we do not suggest that Maxine represents all young people in this situation. It is clear that our fictional families’ problems are complex, as Maxine’s parents both clearly wish to protect their child, but cannot agree on the best course of action, and this conflict is itself shown to be damaging to Maxine’s wellbeing.

Nevertheless, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

Yours sincerely,

Charlie
Viewer Services Supervisor

OP posts:
Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:06

That’s an oxymoron. Trans woman are not women I’m afraid.
Humans can’t change sex it’s a biological fact.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:05

Sorry - should have been attempting suicide.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 22:04

Depicting suicide as a way to get what you want (in this case for the child's parents to get back together) is totally irresponsible.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:04

But it was her wanting to identify as a girl that meant the father left.

Theyprobablywill · 24/10/2018 22:04

This reply has been deleted

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HopeGarden · 24/10/2018 22:02

In episode 1, the suicide attempt seems to be triggered by Max/Maxine’s reaction to the parents separation and the parents starting to form new relationships.

Parents separating and finding new romantic partners is a reality for many children, and one that’s completely unrelated to the children’s gender identity.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 22:01

I am a feminist. I just don't exclude trans women.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 22:00

Seriously feminist? Is your username ironic then?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 21:58

It's not easy to get puberty blockers. I wish my daughter had been able to get them.

Mrskeats · 24/10/2018 21:56

Someone needs to be 'judgy'. Some people are showing a distinct lack of judgement in giving puberty blockers to under 16s for a start. Isn't Dr Webberley's sentencing next week?

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 21:55

It's not worth a complaint, because it deals with the realities these kids face.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 21:53

That message - that attempting suicide is an effective way to get what you want - is a very, very irresponsible and dangerous message to send out.

Totally agree. Worth a complaint for that alone.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 21:52

Csnihaveanap. I agree with you. It is an excellent programme and deals with the awful conflict of having to decide whether to live a lie or to be honest with parents who may reject you for being who you truly are.

Feminist4 · 24/10/2018 21:49

But if it weren’t about a trans girl you wouldn’t be up in arms.

HopeGarden · 24/10/2018 21:46

Ive only seen the first episode.

No idea how realistic it is from a transgender POV.

But the way they portrayed the attempted suicide in the first episode was very disturbing.

It very much came across to me, as a child unhappy about his parents separation attempting suicide in order to stop his mum going on a date with a new man. And then because of the suicide attempt, dad moves back home.

That message - that attempting suicide is an effective way to get what you want - is a very, very irresponsible and dangerous message to send out.

OlennasWimple · 24/10/2018 21:28

We have photos of my grandad wearing a dress - boys then only wore trousers after they turned 7. He was born in the 1920s

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 21:09

Actually in Victorian times boys wore dresses until they were six or so, and children’s toys weren’t gendered much at all ,apart from dolls.

I think the expectations in earlier times were much more sex-specific, certainly by the time the children were approaching puberty like the child in the programme. By the 60s when I was a child, children were allowed to play with anything, but now we've gone backwards so that anyone who isn't totally in their gendered box needs medicating. Insanity.

canihaveanap · 24/10/2018 21:06

That I agree with coco

VelvetReVulva · 24/10/2018 21:06

The ‘lived experience’ term is starting to be really cringey.

Coyoacan · 24/10/2018 20:58

The most significant issue is the portrayal of suicide and attempted suicide as a means for a child to get what they want. Very dangerous and very contagious.

canihaveanap · 24/10/2018 20:22

Some people on these boards can be quite cruel with their insinuations.

I can also stand up and say that based on lived experiences the drama was very realistic.

Not because my son played with dolls. Because he was adamant he should have been a girl.

The last thing parents or children in these situations need is judgey mumsnetters who think they have been pushed into some kind of treatment because they have picked up a doll 

I think some of the comments are people trying to make points and be clever but unless you have had the "lived experience" you just look more ignorant.

AspieAndProud · 24/10/2018 19:46

Based on experience Butterfly is very realistic

You have my sympathies if that’s true. It can’t have been easy having a mother who thought playing with dolls was cause for medical intervention.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 24/10/2018 19:42

My brother had a baby doll as a small boy , in the 60s.

My son had a baby doll and a buggy in which to push it around in the 1990s. This hyper gendered stuff is partly down to the parents and their prejudices.

SirVixofVixHall · 24/10/2018 19:38

Actually in Victorian times boys wore dresses until they were six or so, and children’s toys weren’t gendered much at all ,apart from dolls. Children played the same games and with the same toys, whatever their sex. I was a child in the late 60s and 70s things were much less pink/blue then too. We all wore similar clothes and had much the same toys apart from the Sindy /Action man divide. My brother had a baby doll as a small boy , in the 60s.

OldCrone · 24/10/2018 18:23

Based on experience Butterfly is very realistic

Why do such people choose to live in some sort of Victorian world, when expectations of what girls and boys should do, wear and play with were so rigid? Maybe you can answer that, spannablue?

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