Butterfly - Feedback from ITV to email complaint

to nothypothetical and hope that you get the autism diagnosis - it can be a double-edged sword, for us it meant more tolerance at school and access to more support. However, DD2 has become so fixated on the autism label that her behaviours have become “more autistic” for want of a better word. She used to fidget, and would jiggle a lot if standing still - having joined loads of online groups she now flaps her hands (“stimming”) and has spent most of her pocket money on sensory toys and things to chew. (She is high functioning, we were told they don’t currently use the term Asperger’s but that is more like her - the behaviours she now showed are more like the children I know who are not likely to be able to go to mainstream school/apply for jobs without support). In a similar way to how she became a stereotypical trans child for a while, she is now a stereotypical autistic child.

To Andrew Wakefield and the thalidomide scandal we can also add contaminated blood. Maybe even Harold Shipman and the numerous ‘Angels of Mercy’.

When the medical profession gets it wrong it gets it wrong catastrophically.

She’s the one who can “diagnose” toddlers as trans by such symptoms as their pulling out their hair clips or unsnapping their.onesies to make them like dresses.

I think that one was Diane Ehrensaft.

She is also the one who thinks kids who regret getting a double mastectomy can just go and another pair implanted. Scary ideologue.

Olson-Kennedy needs to be the subject of an ethics inquiry. I'm sure malpractice suits will put her out of business eventually, but the problem is that she's hurting a lot of kids in the meantime.

It's going to be far worse than MMR, ChiaraRimini. It's going to be even bigger than Thalidomide because there are more children involved and they're losing so much.

Sterilizing children and depriving them of sexual function are huge wrongs. Huge. Doctors take immense care to protect fertility even when a child has life threatening illness.

I hope the American doctors performing double mastectomies on 13 y.o girls are bankrupted, though frankly they need jailing.

There was a case where American TRAs were pushing for a double mastectomy for a girl with Down's syndrome.

But I have read that the consent forms such surgeons prepare will protect them from future law suits. I'm not sure this would work under the British system, but as the NHS is far less keen to medically transition under 18s I hope far fewer of them will be mutilated.

KayM2, yes, it was you. I'm so sorry I reported your appearance inaccurately. I'm famously unobservant.

I once talked to a friend for ages before saying he looked a bit different, had he had a haircut? He roared with laughter and told me that after many years he'd shaved his beard and moustache off.

But you do pass well, and I said so. I think you, and other transsexual women pass partly because you identify with women rather than wanting to bully us. Your walk and demeanor fit a woman of your age, whereas the fetishists scream "look at me expressing my kink".

A good analogy is that you and other transsexuals come to women as refugees. The new much larger group of TRAs approach us as invaders.

AspieandProud, I have long thought that trans is going to be the next MMR but potentially much bigger as parents had no one to sue for not vaccinating their children. In ten years time there will be lawsuits brought against doctors by the people who they sterilised and mutilated.

Excellent review by Sarah Ditum

sarahditum.com/2018/10/27/trans-drama-butterfly-is-rejection-and-sexism-dressed-up-as-social-justice-tv/

NRTFT, but I suddenly remembered this, if it's not been previously mentioned

Just like the two Judge John Deed episodes about MMR vaccine that got memory holed. I’ve met the man who wrote a drama about mobile phone masts causing brain tumours that hasn’t been repeated since either. Dramatists aren’t scientists. They really don’t know how to evaluate scientific evidence.

re prawnof the ..etc... and the transwoman who stopped. ( above) If that was in Guildford, it was probably me. Though I was not wearing a dress, as I own none, a nd I was not wearing any makeup at all, as I don't. But the age you mention and the height does fit, and I did talk to someone who was leafleting. In the rain. By the library. People like me prefer " transsexual woman" to transwoman, but I'd not fallout with anyone over it. And if it wasn't me. then there is another example of a TS woman who tries to live a normal life, and not scare the horses.

kesstrel

Good point there.

NRTFT, but I suddenly remembered this, if it's not been previously mentioned:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_the_Silence

Hear the Silence is a 2003 semi-fictional TV drama based on the MMR vaccine controversy, which started when Andrew Wakefield published a paper claiming a possible link between the MMR vaccine and autism....Christine Shields, a fictional mother who discovers the possible MMR-autism link when her son is diagnosed as autistic.[1] Stevenson's character begins telling doctor after doctor that her son seemed to develop autism soon after he received the MMR vaccine, but she does not receive any sympathy from them, nor does she receive any from her boss, or even her husband. However, this all changes when she meets Dr. Wakefield, who believes her statements...

ITV again. And now people are dying of measles. The similarities are striking, no?

The transwoman in her 60s/70s who stopped to express support when I was leafletting was (as I recall) wearing a dress, light coat, flat shoes and a little make up. She fitted in really well because she was dressed like lots of women that age.

Up close you could tell her sex from the bones in her face but from a distance she passed really well. The product of good observational skills, I'd guess. Plus she was lucky to be only about 5'7" and have a relatively slight frame for a man.

But what made the difference was how she walked and carried herself. That and the appropriate clothing. There was nothing of the fetishist about her.

re the post that asks if there are any TS women who do not wear makeup and dresses. Yes, there certainly are

I agree with this. The Transwomen I know own are trainers , jeans and T-shirts sort of people, with no make up. I haven't asked personal questions but I am assuming they are transsexuals with body dysphoria, as opposed to AGPs.

Me too. Adults can make adult decisions about whether or not transition is a path they want to pursue. Children simply don't have the cognitive capacity required for it to be safe or wise for them to be allowed to make that decision. The fact that the majority desist just underlines the fact that the decision on anything medical should be deferred till adulthood.

I agree with every word of that, OldCrone. The more I learn the more certain I am that under 18s should not be medicated.

In fact in most cases the child " backs off" and lives as a homosexual adult.

Since nobody can know which of the children will not desist (apart from knowing that they are in the minority), and growing up to be a homosexual adult does not require any medication, surely none of these children should be medicated as children. For the few who do not desist, the medical treatment can come later, as adults, when they are mature enough to make a properly informed decision.

What exactly is a 'real thing'? Gender Dysphoria? Undoubtedly. It's not an instance of a boy actually being a girl, because that is not possible. But it is a serious condition that needs extensive investigation and is often a symptom that indicates other things.

For a very, very small number the dysphoria might be eased by limited medical intervention, but that's got to be weighed against the huge negatives involved with that intervention so that there can be a meaningful application of informed consent.

A responsible presentation of this and the impact on a family involved might be possible. This. Was. Not. It.

Well, FB, in many cases you will be correct. But you referred to " a child with MH" issues". The psychiatrists who specialise in these things might say that they are often dealing with a fixed brain condition ( ie, something that will not go away, like colour blindness as a simple example) , not with delusions, in the usual sense. It is often tehcase that the parents HAVE treated it as a delusion, and not gone along with it. In the case of someone I have never met but my ex knows well, the mother and father still refer to their child as " darling girl's name" even though he went through th eTavistock clinic, then a Gender Clinic, is post op, and has a pretty striking beard. And is at one of the finest Universities in the world, doing well. But I'm not a=saying that all cases are like that. In fact in most cases the child " backs off" and lives as a homosexual adult. But again..... wat about in years to come. It is all tragic, for all parties, but in many cases it is a real thing, not bad parenting.

Kay, yes, life with a child with MH issues is an enormous strain on a family. It can crush a marriage for sure. I don't think anyone here would dispute that, and some of us are living it. There is no neat solution that will tie everything up with a bow. Especially not deciding that your child's obsessive delusions are actually factual and attempting to get medication prescribed that will stunt their development in almost every way.

That's what is being presented uncritically by this programme, with reams of approving promotional material. That's got nothing at all to do with presenting the reality of living with a child in extreme distress.

I thought they treated what the "parents" were going through very convincingly; the strains that sort of thing puts on the family, and their relationships, is akin to that put on by a disabled child. If that seems harsh, my career was with disabled kids, and we saw how the whole family was impacted. I don't think that allowing the child to just be a feminine boy, as someone suggested earlier, is always possible. I'm sure they would if they could. If the child insists, consistently over time, that they are of the opposite sex, and is consistently distressed about it, what is the parent to do? Seek help and advice, obviously... but after that? . It may all blow over, in many cases it does. But meanwhile.... a nightmare all round.

The writer said he envisaged families including children sitting down together to watch this, despite the watershed timing.

Would have been really interesting to do this story as a multiple perspectives drama; to get how the same events can look like night and day to different characters.