Why can’t all women see the dangers?

Me too Noquont . A big fuck you from them to us

Well they can fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more. We're not giving up our rights.

I honestly think adhering to the "right" ideology is a huge thing for a lot of people. Women I know in the liberal arts, especially, are big on this. And they are nice, right-on people.

It just becomes the big new thing that you are supposed to believe and fight for. But really, it is an identity of "being good and kind and right" and people don't generally like to dig too deep into identities because it's uncomfortable if they don't like what they see.. Classic cognitive dissonance. It is one of the reasons it's so important to have GC people from what they'd see as the "good" side - Jonny Best for example, and trans people themselves - to start breaking this narrative spell.

Nobody thinks that in reality they are fighting for the Karen Whites of this world to be housed with vulnerable women. But I honestly don't know how anyone can ignore and minimise the blatant abusive and misogynist behaviour of TRAs, or just not see it. It's there all the time. Under our noses.

"MP's, and everyone else, have sleep-walked into the situation. This has been a very well orchestrated campaign, with a lot of private backing. It has sailed in under the radar, clothed in the language of gay rights and other liberation movements. Many of the most vocal trans campaigners are gay men, and lesbians, such as Maria Miller - who have adopted trans rights as their new spearhead, now that most of the civil rights that they set out to achieve, have been achieved.

Most people of left/liberal persuasion just see this as an extension of gay rights. They have not thought it through - nor seen its inherent inconsistencies and contradictions."

What @Justhadathought said.

Me too Noquont . A big fuck you from them to us

So ironic that it's coincided with celebrating 100 years of women finally winning the fight for the vote.

Isn't it just. I sometimes wonder if it was done on purpose...

@MsTSwift - every day my dp asks me what is the next story in this whole sorry saga. He's as constantly shocked as I am.

No of course not Noquont, but I tended to think (before) that if it was important, bbC or ch 4 or Guardian would report it. I can see how it just isn't on some people's radar, especially the silencing of debate. I was naive.

Without mumsnet I would have had no idea about the silencing of discussion, the aggressive, threatening behaviour of the TRAs. and the hounding of people who disagreed with the TRA/ GRC narrative etc.

The deafening silence opened my eyes to the contempt these media corporations have for women.. we pay half their fucking wages in ad revenue and licence fee, but aren't given a voice? Wtf!

So ironic that it's coincided with celebrating 100 years of women finally winning the fight for the vote.

And fucking hell, how the hell does wearing a wig, a frock, and a bit of lippy make a man a woman!!? (Sorry for rant)

I think it's possible for people to deny reality for a long time when reality is uncomfortable.

Why did so many people ignore the many, many reports of child abuse by Jimmy Savile? Why did he get a knighthood ffs? AFTER he admitted some decidedly dodgy stuff in his autobiography and AFTER many, many reports of abuse.

I think people were scared of speaking out too. He and his pals were powerful (still are I expect).

Charley feel exactly the same - also obsessed and now dh is thanks to my ramblings. We have pre teen girls.

Oh and my friend was in a shop changing room today and was filmed over the top of the changing cubicle. Lucky this never happens isn’t it? Except...it just did

Mumsnet is definitely an eye opener.
Other than that I think to acknowledge that there will be problems is to acknowledge that men are problems. And how long will it take someone to shout about how misandrist that is and namalt. To paraphrase Germaine Greer if the full extent of male contempt and hate for women becomes known, how on earth will women ever manage to live with men again.

You might not have been GC Charley, but on the other hand I don't suppose you'd be out there trying to dismantle women's rights either.

Tbh if it wasn't for mumsnet I don't think I would have become GC. I'm a Channel 4 News watcher, and used to read Guardian online. I listen to Radio 4. I have only one publicly GC Facebook friend. If it wasn't for mumsnet this whole dangerous, scary, war (for want of a better word) might have gone under my radar.
Mumsnet, plus the number of autistic, already troubled, trans teens (female to male) at my workplace made it all real for me.
Now, I'm obsessed. I've got a few colleagues and my DP obsessed too.

And also, exactly which rights do trans people not currently have?

Exactly. Transpeople have exactly the same rights as anybody else.

The media also minimise. Tara Hudson was presented as a gentle make-up artist. It was only through reading posts on here that I understood she had headbutted a barman, knocked his teeth out, and still had a penis which she used to earn money as a self-described 'hung angel.'

I think if you haven't seen male fetish in all its angry entitled horror you don't understand what you are opening to door to. The TRA movement has successfuly presented the issue as 'we just want to pee in peace,' glossing over the more challenging issues of penises in rape counselling centres and DV shelters.

Also, because the media is constrained from mentioning that an offender is trans unless it is truly the central issue of a story, so much criminal behavour is not correctly reported. Very few people, for example, understand that David Challoner wore a dress and used a female name when he abused that poor child, AND THAT THIS MEANS he counts as trans under the Stonewall definition.

Most people want to believe that the people who want access to female spaces look like Laverne Cox, not Karen.

Older women ( feminists) have been around long enough not to take anything for granted; and many have been at the front line.....before the advent of neo-liberalism and the politics of identity that we now witness.Everything today is about the freedom to be and do as you please; about individualism and freedom of personal expression. A post structuralist analysis ( for those who are analysing anything at all) of society. Queer theory arose out of this post modern vision of society. It is all pretty hedonistic and self centred.

I also think many MPs value their career more than women's rights and safeguarding

This.

And @Couragetocourage I get why you don't want to be cynical enough to believe it but I do (although I don't want to believe it about Angela Raynor - I'm hoping she's in the not-thought-about-it-enough camp).

I had lengthy debates about the matter with my MP (woman, safe labour seat, careerist). When we actually spoke she seemed to get it and both emails and in person she hinted that she agreed but refused to give an opinion until she'd heard 'what the front bench' had decided was the party line.

I was so annoyed with her, but with politics in general. What's the point? They know. But don't care enough to fight.

Legislating Trans rights as if they're all Karen White is like legislating women's rights as if we're all Myra Hindley

As far as I'm aware we ask female teachers to undertake a DBS check. Are we assuming all female teachers are Myra Hindley, or ensuring safeguarding of children?

Women are entitled to hard won safeguarded spaces apart from penis bearers. Not all men are rapists but all rapists are men (legal definition of rape).

This

I think the blinkers are a sort of self defence mechanism.

In that, if they don't acknowledge there might be a problem, they don't see it, it doesn't exist.

In the same way people always blame victims, come up with a "reason" as to why that has happened to them.

Without a "reason" someone would have to acknowledge that this is something that could happen to them. Who would want to know that?

For example, suppose someone says they are married to an abusive transgender person (that's me!) it is easier for people to imagine that I am lying about the abuse, or lying about his reasons to present as her.

That's far easier to swallow than to acknowledge that I have done nothing to deserve this. If I haven't, then the same shitshow could happen to them or someone they love.

I have been very upset by seeing certain friends post stuff about 'anti-trans feminists' on Facebook. That is a very clever labelling of us because who wants to be thought of as an ignorant bigot?

I 100% think they believe that trans people are hugely oppressed and vulnerable. They think that we would have been homophobic once, too. It's hugely offensive and wrong because actually the trans rights movement is homophobic but there we go.

This issue is so divisive. I've honestly lost a bit of respect for a couple of women I valued highly before based on the stiff they're coming out with. They just don't get it and they're betraying their own sex.

Legislating Trans rights as if they're all Karen White is like legislating women's rights as if we're all Myra Hindley