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Original poster

University turns disabled toilets into all-gender toilets

63 replies

sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:08

here

"The University has made existing single cubicle disabled toilets gender neutral, which means there will be no situation in which two people of any gender identity will be in the same room, ensuring they can feel comfortable using the space. This differs from gender-neutral toilets at some other universities in the UK, where entire bathrooms have been designated gender neutral. This is a solution proposed by the students themselves, discussed and agreed at the Union’s Student Council."

Interesting that this university has recognised the obvious issues with mixed sex toilets but it does seem to be entirely at the expense of disabled users.

Incidentally, I guest lecture at this Uni and they moved into a brand new, purpose built campus last month. So appropriation of the disabled toilets seems to be waht they did with their own building as a short term measure before moving.

In the new campus there are some traditional Female and Male toilets with cubicles and then some gender inclusive toilets which are a row of about 6 individual rooms with sinks and doors that meet the floor off a main corridor.

So they appear to have built the campus in mind with continuing to separate the sexes whilst also providing a gender neutral space.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 20:16

Well this genderless toilet isn't taking anything away from anyone else, it's creating a new space and not taking anyone elses.

Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 20:12

Fair enough, captain.

In August 2018 this was the situation. As of September 2018 when the campus migrated it isn't.

The situation is topical in both the old campus and the new, because it's interesting to see how a University has accommodated trans requests both within an existing infrastructure and within a purpose built one.

The new Northampton campus was a massively ambitious project and very unusual so I thought worth discussion.

But I'm sorry you didn't like my title.

OP posts:
selfidentifyinggiraffe · 23/10/2018 20:11

I think disabled toilets becoming a third space will just lead to disabled people having to wait even longer and being pushed further down the list of priorities

They already have to contend with the general public who think they can just use if nobody is around as no disabled person in history has ever found themselves desperate to use the loo 🙄

Now they'll have to contend with the ENTITLED brigade who won't understand why they are annoying yet more people over toilets

Bit like mums with buggies on bus Vs disabled wheelchair user

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 20:07

Captain, you seem determined to have an argument with me, is there a reason for that?
I'm not having an argument I pointed out your first post was misleading and is not reflective of the current situation.

FekkoTheLawyer · 23/10/2018 20:03

Gawd I'm due to go to an exhibition there soon. What wankery is this?

Fightthebear · 23/10/2018 20:01

Saw this at Tate Britain too.

Disabled loo was also marked “all gender”.

Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:58

Captain, you seem determined to have an argument with me, is there a reason for that?

OP posts:
FekkoTheLawyer · 23/10/2018 19:58

So men can pee on every lamppost then? Yup that sounds about right.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:57

that doesn't take away from the fact that the university turned disabled toilets into all gender toilets. Because that's what they did.

And now they've corrected it.

PositivelyPERF · 23/10/2018 19:57

Sorry, TWAW

PositivelyPERF · 23/10/2018 19:56

It’s not going to make one blind bit of difference to females. Since the woke are always saying TRAW, it will just mean that the men can use the male toilets, unisex toilets, disabled toilets AND Female toilets. The trans identifying men are so hard done by, aren’t they! 🙄

Akire · 23/10/2018 19:54

The bigger issue is that if providing gender zero toilets is norm, most business are not going to build a third space and will just stick sign up on accesable.

Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:53

CaptainKirksSpookyghost Tue 23-Oct-18 19:51:21
It's doesn't excluding disable people, there are disabled toilets too.

To clarify, the fourth space toilets are not accessible toilets and so are inaccesible to many people with disabilities (which shouldn't be an issue since the disabled toilets are single person units only.)

OP posts:
Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:52

My title isn't misleading because in 2015 the university turned disabled toilets into all gender toilets.

Three years later they moved to a new campus with a fourth space.

But that doesn't take away from the fact that the university turned disabled toilets into all gender toilets. Because that's what they did.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:51

It's doesn't excluding disable people, there are disabled toilets too.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:50

Your title is misleading.

Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:49

Yes captain kirk, sorry for the confusion.

They've built a fourth gender neutral space (that excludes disabled people who are back to having their own space).

OP posts:
Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:48

Basically before on the old campus they didn't throw the door open to the ladies, but appropriated the disabled toilets.

In the brand new, purpose built campus that launched this year they built a fourth space.

I have no respect for the trampling over of disability rights wrt what they did with the old campus, but I DO find it interesting that they didn't just hand over the ladies.

I am not remotely keen on them having thrown the disabled toilets open to all, but it is of interest that they chose this option and then built a fourth space when opportunity presented itself.

Instead of going with TWAW and so belong in the ladies. The end.

OP posts:
CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:46

I'm confused now, so they are separated from disabled toilets?

Original poster
sayhelloandwavegoodbye · 23/10/2018 19:42

"How will that work, unless each disabled toilet in in its own room it won't work

It sounds like that's exactly what they're doing:

some gender inclusive toilets which are a row of about 6 individual rooms with sinks and doors that meet the floor off a main corridor"

Ah, no, sorry. To clarify the single cubicles are definitely not wheelchair accessible.

I've not checked out the disabled toilets on the new campus, I more than assume that they are there, however.

So from what I've seen the new campus has:

female toilets (grouped)
male toilets (grouped)
disabled toilets
unisex toilets (narrow individual cubicles)

So, in other words, a fourth space.

OP posts:
LadyLance · 23/10/2018 19:41

I've seen at least one other UK university use this as a solution (I'm assuming not the same one because of the new purpose build campus). I agree it's not a great solution, and if unis want to go down the "third spaces" route, they should create purpose built unisex toilets so this does not impact on disabled users.

Could you ask them if they have assessed the impact of the change on disabled users/students to make sure it will not have a negative outcome for them? Perhaps point out that some disabled people have issues with urgency and increased wait times would be significantly more detrimental to them than the average user. You could also remind the university of their obligations under the DDA in a "I'm worried this won't be DDA compliant and I wouldn't want this to cause problems" type of way?

As they are "all gender" toilets, this presumably opens the toilets up to everyone- potentially massively increasing wait times if they are in more convenient locations?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:41

Not if there is 6 of these toilets.

FekkoTheLawyer · 23/10/2018 19:39

I thought public building had to provide separate disabled loos where possible. Is that not right?

So someone who can't use the usual loos will have to wait for some blue haired boy to finish touching up his makeup and stuffing his bra with loo roll?

ohello · 23/10/2018 19:37

It's not the best solution, but it is expensive and time consuming for a business or pubic venue to install a fourth bathroom/shower. So it works as a stop-gap or even permanently in some situations. Very few people use the disabled facilities as it is now, and they were NEVER intended to be a "no waiting zone".

Though I'm guessing that all the trans and other random pervs who are just dying to have easy access to naked women, will be on the internet pretending to be disabled and complaining that "now they have to wait".

Personally, sometimes my disability is very obvious, and pretty much everybody offers to let me "cut in line" etc etc. So I don't think this is going to be much of a problem.

Anyway, notice that it was the students themselves who came up with this plan. Which means that there was a whole lot of young people who could see the problems with letting anyone into spaces where women are particularly vulnerable and disrobing.

It will just PeakTrans even more people when the trans have a meltdown over not being able to shower next to naked women. Because if trans really just want to shower in safety AND recognized that women are entitled to set our own sexual boundaries, then they wouldn't be complaining. Nothing to complain about unless you're a perv who doesn't think women are entitled to boundaries.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 23/10/2018 19:37

Ah, then that's a much better solution than I originally thought.