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Original poster

Dawn Butler transphobic Instagram post

40 replies

AugustL · 23/10/2018 14:50

www.instagram.com/p/BpEf4hFlOT7/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1luz7l0u96nhk

Menopause , women? Women? This post is soooo problematic. Did you not know, it's not only women who get the menopause, men have ovaries too, and get the menopause. Some women don't have menopause, they have a penis. This post is transphobic, and bigoted! The correct language you're allowed to use would be "people who have ovaries" . And you didn't even bother to put a trigger warning for your use of gendered language! My goodness, how transphobic, thought you'd been taught better! More training needed.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 26/10/2018 08:04

twitter.com/TheRedRoar/status/1055433954289958912

Dawn Butler transphobic Instagram post
ZuttZeVootEeVro · 26/10/2018 07:46

I think the posts show that when addressing one issue, she fails to consider others.

When tra ask for her support, she will speak for them and disregard how policies can have an impact in women and girls.

When speaking of women's issues, she then forgets how it can impact on transpeople.

I don't know if compartmentalising issues like this makes for good policies and laws.

Original poster
AugustL · 26/10/2018 07:21

Yes the comments from that guy on her insta are creepy as fk

OP posts:
Original poster
AugustL · 26/10/2018 07:17

Do you suppose she realises that, in using sane, accessible, accurate language, she has committed transphobia and broken all her own guidelines?

I can only assume she must not realise, so she must really not be aware of what is going on then, because she is probably the mp who is the strongest trans ally, and we've read here the reports of her speech at that trans conference, so she wouldn't purposely go against their rules. Can she really be unaware of how they police language, and the way language has to be all "inclusive" now, to the extreme, or else it's transphobic. It's weird. Unless she doesn't truly believe in the ideology, but I doubt that based on what we've seen/heard from her, unless she's just uninformed, supports on a shallow level - "poor trans people,let's be nice to them etc". These posts do show she doesn't truly believe though, if she did she'd "know"/say men can have abortions too, and non-binary and whatever else, use the neutral term "people" like in Ireland, or reduce it to "body part havers". No posts from TRAs challenging her on it either, possibly to not rock the boat. Unless she's posting like this, so as not to scare off the still sane Labour party voters/potential voters.

OP posts:
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 26/10/2018 07:14

The instagram comments are revealing. Two comments from the same random man commenting on her looks & how she’s too young for the menopause. Fucking men. My thoughts on Dawn Butler’s stancecaside, it must be so depressing to put these posts out there & get nothing but hassle and bullshit in response.

vicviking · 26/10/2018 06:58

I am not on twitter. Does Dawn often tweet on women's issues?

Original poster
AugustL · 26/10/2018 06:45

shock

She's gone and done it again on Twitter

mobile.twitter.com/DawnButlerBrent/status/1055206687022465024

"Parliament has voted to support extending a woman's right to choose to Northern Ireland. The Government must take immediate steps to extend fundamental reproductive rights.

Theresa May must stop turning a blind eye to this injustice and finally move to the right side of history. "

Doesn't she know, it's not only women who have abortions... what's it Ireland have to say, "people".

Where are all the trans rights activists that usually police this language? Do they keep themselves quiet on her posts so as not to rock the boat, reveal their craziness, risk losing one of their key allies? Tbh thought Dawn would "know better" anyway...

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IKeepFlouncing · 24/10/2018 10:25

Oh come on, give TRAs a chance to have their babies first, then we can learn all about woes of things like having prolapse etc before expecting them to educate us about menopause.

I do think women and this menopausal thing is still some kind of myth as not had some TRAs qualified fairytale pissybollocks official make a big announcement declaring discovery of menopause.

Grin at manopause above

JellySlice · 24/10/2018 10:07

What has AGP got to do with menopause? Hmm

HilltopTractor · 24/10/2018 10:03

Why is AGP being ignored in all of this?

R0wantrees · 23/10/2018 22:06

Presumably if a woman transitions to male and takes cross sex hormones, they will not then experience a natural menopause (I presume)

I would presume that they would experience menopausal symptoms as a consequence of the medication.

Also due to the medication taken and increased risks etc, many may then have hysterectomies at a relatively early age and so surgical menopause.

KataraJean · 23/10/2018 21:50

Enlightening view of womenHmm

Ereshkigal · 23/10/2018 21:48

I said something like "but if you stopped taking them you'd just revert back to male hormones". The TRA said, yes it would be like the menopause is for women and they planned to do it.

KataraJean · 23/10/2018 21:32

The proof of the pudding is in the eating Ereshkigal. I would take that comment with a pinch of salt until it actually happened.

Mixing my metaphors here

Ereshkigal · 23/10/2018 21:23

How about withdrawing hormone treatment in their late forties? Then TW can experience one of the most sublime joys of womanhood...

Yes I had a conversation with an particularly dedicated TRA once who said they would do this. But only the one in a few years.

ChiaraRimini · 23/10/2018 21:21

They are pursuing a male fantasy of hyper-sexualised femininity. However given that some of them pretend to have periods, no doubt they will also be claiming to have a menopause became feelz, while continuing to take the drugs.
Given the concerns about HRT increasing cancer risk, I do wonder what the long term effects of taking cross sex hormones are.

KataraJean · 23/10/2018 21:21

I think there are two things at play here

As posters have already said, poster transwomen are aiming for a youthful sexy feminine presentation, which does not square with an older woman’s condition.

But equally importantly, the language around cervix- h a v e r s (my autocorrect will not let me write that) and pregnant people is to be include female born people who transition to male, who still need medical care in these contexts - the demographic is young and therefore not of menopause age. There are not fifty something females transitioning to male in significant numbers.

Presumably if a woman transitions to male and takes cross sex hormones, they will not then experience a natural menopause (I presume)

FesteringCarbuncle · 23/10/2018 21:13

Of course TAs aren't interested in the menopause
They are 50 year old girls doing girl stuff

Trousered · 23/10/2018 20:32

Wikipedia

A variety of different sex-hormonal medications are used in feminizing hormone therapy for transgender women.[1][2][3][4] These include estrogens to induce feminization and suppress testosterone levels; antiandrogens such as androgen receptor antagonists, antigonadotropins, GnRH modulators, and 5α-reductase inhibitors to further oppose the effects of androgens like testosterone; and progestogens for various possible though uncertain benefits.[1][2][3][4]

This is NOT hrt.

rememberatime · 23/10/2018 20:31

They would have to call it the "manopause" - they just paused being a man for a while

R0wantrees · 23/10/2018 20:30

Its also worth considering that the side effects of taking testosterone are well known eg in context of steroid abuse.

Anyone who has done drug training will have been advised of these.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/anabolic-steroid-misuse/

heresyandwitchcraft · 23/10/2018 20:24

Excellent points, R0
I might take a proper look at this question of hormones and best practice sometime, because it's quite interesting.

R0wantrees · 23/10/2018 20:13

I am also not sure that trans women ever usually stop taking cross-sex hormones, so they don't really experience the menopause in that sense?
I'm sure there will be medical need for some transwomen to stop taking cross sex hormones.

I do wonder how medics square the research and good practice with regards the length of time women are advised to take oestrogen (as HRT).
there is a balance of potential risk v potential benefit for the individual.

For transwomen ceasing taking cross sex hormones this would of course lead to side effects.
These side effects would not be the menopause.

MadamBatty · 23/10/2018 19:50

I had a trans woman call me an ugly menopausal old hag. I said thanks 😄 I think they thought it was the worst insult they could give me. I embrace my hag ness

heresyandwitchcraft · 23/10/2018 19:46

The R in HRT is significant as it means replacement!

Yes. The language is so important.
I think the current narrative is that cross-sex hormones are equivalent to HRT, because the trans person's body is just "not producing the hormone enough" (because they're the opposite sex). I've seen it compared to the need to take insulin for diabetes or thyroid tablets for hypothyroidism. So the acknowledgment of the fact that the trans person's natural hormone levels are actually a completely normal function of being male or female is obscured.

I am also not sure that trans women ever usually stop taking cross-sex hormones, so they don't really experience the menopause in that sense?