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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

College toilet

41 replies

Trinalbcnotanonman · 23/10/2018 13:21

This is v outing.

How do I reply to this?

I thought female and male were biological not gender terms?

And as they are default unisex should the cubicals now be floor to ceiling?

And are they making sanitary products and bins available in both?

College toilet
College toilet
OP posts:
DomesticAnarchist · 23/10/2018 15:53

I think @Didactylos has it.

If they had read "women, including trans" I'd expect it to be used by women and trans women.

As it says "female including trans" I interpret that to be the biological female and trans men (who may still require sanitary bins).

I'm happy with those designations, I would not mind sharing an enclosed room with transmen (or gender fluid/non-conforming or butch-presenting females).

yetanotherusernameAgain · 23/10/2018 15:38

Is this an esteemed place of learning, OP? Cos if they can't manage to communicate coherent instructions about toilet use then I don't think it bodes well for their ability on more intellectual matters...

WarmWishes · 23/10/2018 15:35

Or just message me?

WarmWishes · 23/10/2018 15:34

Is there any chance you could reveal where this is?

yetanotherusernameAgain · 23/10/2018 15:33

No, they're not all gender neutral. If that were the case all the signs would say 'Gender neutral' and there wouldn't be an instruction in the email to use the designated toilets.

yetanotherusernameAgain · 23/10/2018 15:26

Ah, I see it is even more confusing.

I interpreted Female = gender, therefore 'Female including Trans' meant women and transwomen. But if Female = biology then it's women and transmen.

If the signs included transwhatever in full then it would be clearer.

Still think the gender neutral toilet is for everyone, because I've never seen separate provision for female / male disabled people.

runforwomen · 23/10/2018 15:23

So surely this means all the toilets are gender neutral then?

yetanotherusernameAgain · 23/10/2018 15:13

That's confusing as the instructions in the email don't match the signs.

"Female including Trans toilet" I would interpret as women and all trans people (in either direction) being able to use. But the email implies it's for women and transwomen (not transmen). Likewise the 'Male including Trans' toilet.

The 'gender neutral' toilet is presumably the former disabled toilet. Everyone can now use that toilet.

Do the male toilets have sanitary product disposal facilities?

Didactylos · 23/10/2018 15:03

blinks
So my reading of that would be -
Female = female biology eg, women, inclusive of trans men
Male = Male biology eg males, inclusive of trans women

and Gender neutral /disables: single modified toilet that would be accessible to those of both sexes with disabilities, where its access for those who are disabled should be promoted over any other group

I was hoping it was an effort at promoting the primacy of biological sex and therefore single sex spaces (Male/female) over gender terms.

BrickByBrick · 23/10/2018 14:48

They ate also not inclusive from a disability pov. Many individuals with conditions such as dementia or autism find just pictures very difficult to translate. These just add to their confusion.

Trinalbcnotanonman · 23/10/2018 14:06

The signs have been up since August. The email was sent today by the Student Association President.

OP posts:
pennydrew · 23/10/2018 14:06

So the ‘accessible’ toilet isn’t just for disabled people? How many of these do they have?

theOtherPamAyres · 23/10/2018 14:03

Personally, I would either remove the sign to the Females' or I would deface it.

If caught, I would say that I was acting to reduce the risk of sexual harassment, voyeurism and assault on women, by men, and felt that it was a reasonable precaution in the circumstances.

If I worked in the building or was a service users, I would make a formal complaint.

Charliethefeminist · 23/10/2018 13:36

That's three mixed sex toilets. What the fuck. What's the point of having any signs at all except 'toilets'. They're all mixed sex.

Spasm0dic · 23/10/2018 13:26

Do you feel daring enough to go in and have a look? Had my leg pressed up against a sanitary bin today, I bet men couldn’t put up with that.
Alternativrly, be a secret activistvand take the new signs down. The EA is still in place for now

UpstartCrow · 23/10/2018 13:25

Ask them where are Muslim women supposed to go if they need to adjust their hijab? they are discriminating against women by making the womens unisex.
Why dont they just make the mens room unisex, and keep the women's room for women?