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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

College toilet

41 replies

Trinalbcnotanonman · 23/10/2018 13:21

This is v outing.

How do I reply to this?

I thought female and male were biological not gender terms?

And as they are default unisex should the cubicals now be floor to ceiling?

And are they making sanitary products and bins available in both?

OP posts:

Juells · 21/11/2018 20:56

No up date in communication but some one else has decided the sign needed clarity.

I'd suggest that a penis drawn in tippex (does such a thing exist now?) or white nail varnish would show up better, on the black.

gingercat02 · 21/11/2018 20:25

Yep ages ago and the woodburner every day cos I like it when it's cold

KenDoddsDadsDogsDead18 · 21/11/2018 20:09

Ancient there's a willy on the male side.

AncientLights · 21/11/2018 19:36

Well I still don't get it. And who wants to spy on men in the loo? Not women, I feel.

KenDoddsDadsDogsDead18 · 21/11/2018 19:03

I had to stare at that for a few moments before I got it....!

tobee · 21/11/2018 12:13

What an excellent addition to the sign.

AndThereSaw · 21/11/2018 11:56

I should say that I come from a position that those with gender dysphoria (ie strongly believe that they are deep down the opposite sex and are undergoing treatment for it) should be granted the courtesy of using their preferred loo.
It's the demedicalisation so anyone who says they want to can access the women's spaces that I'm struggling with.

AndThereSaw · 21/11/2018 11:48

1= women and those who want to be women or believe that they are deep down women or want to dress up as women or want to spy on women
2= men and those who want to be men or believe that they are deep down men or want to dress up as men or want to spy on men.
3= people under all of the above categories with a disability which necessitates an accessible toilet..

Original poster

Trinalbcnotanonman · 21/11/2018 11:35

No up date in communication but some one else has decided the sign needed clarity.

OP posts:

BrickByBrick · 24/10/2018 20:27

To clarify 'weird' I mean the half skirt figure, it has so much potential to be confusing.

BrickByBrick · 24/10/2018 20:25

Gracious me that reply made me doubt everything I thought I knew, but they have misunderstood. Yes people with autism or dementia respond better to pictures, but one of a toilet you doofus not pictures of weird figures. How the hell is a weird sign going to help someone with dementia?

www.swansea.ac.uk/humanandhealthsciences/news-and-events/latest-news/makepublictoiletsdementia-friendlyexpertscallforbetterdesignandsignage.php

please someone tell me I'm correct in my thinking

Didactylos · 24/10/2018 20:11

What?
clearly no one understands words
if they think the biological terms male and female refer to gender
Im not sure how those pictures are going to help clarify either
Perhaps the signs should communicate the truth: that all the toilets are really unisex

plus all this lovely inclusiveness the are promoting actively excludes those from certain faith backgrounds who cannot use unisex spaces, and those who may have had traumatic experiences, suffered rape or sexual abuse, have PTSD and are unable or unwilling to share facilites with members of the opposite sex.

I would also love to know more about sanitary bin provisions in this arrangement

Original poster

Trinalbcnotanonman · 24/10/2018 14:53

A non reply still conflating sex and gender.
I have pointed this out and the elf and safety reg 20. Have asked for further clarification and to be referred to some who can answer if he is unable.

^Thank you for your email.
To clarify the toilet signs are about Gender for example: Female including Trans female, Male including Trans male and Gender-Neutral/Accessible toilets are for everyone not all disablilties are visible . Also there are few students in the College who have dementia and for our students who have autism we have found that some many understand pictures better than words and vice versa
I would also like to say that the College is promoting Inclusiveness in all areas. ^

OP posts:

Chocolala · 23/10/2018 21:03

Thanks 🙏

Sexnotgender · 23/10/2018 20:57

Sexnotgender · 23/10/2018 20:56

Sexnotgender · 23/10/2018 20:52

I’ll find it...

Chocolala · 23/10/2018 19:40

Where’s the bit about hand washing facilities from? Need it at work...

Spasm0dic · 23/10/2018 19:37

I went to a mcdonalds in birmingham, where you have to go through a mixed handwashing area and through an open door to get to the ladies toilets, then out again to wash your hands. Never going there again.

Sexnotgender · 23/10/2018 19:04

If these are being designated as mixed sex facilities, In addition to chocolala’s post, not only must they be self contained rooms with proper floor to ceiling doors and walls the hand washing facilities must also be inside that room or they are in breach of regulations.

Cubicles with external hand washing facilities are NOT acceptable.

Kick up a massive fuss.

Chocolala · 23/10/2018 18:59

FYI.

Under regulation 20 of the Workplace (Health, safety and welfare) regulations 1992/3004 separate sanitary conveniences (loos) must be provided for ‘men’ and ‘women’ unless each convenience is in a separate room the door of which is capable of being secured from the inside. Seems to be still in force.

Presumable in law a person only counts as a ‘woman’ as a result of biology or having a GRC. If it was otherwise Stonewall wouldn’t need to be lobbying for self ID.

Are your loos all in self contained little rooms (no gaps above/below doors and partitions)?

Original poster

Trinalbcnotanonman · 23/10/2018 17:36

I have emailed for clarity, using the eloquently worded posts above.

Will let you know

OP posts:

Didactylos · 23/10/2018 17:10

I hope that my interpretation is what they mean, as it would be a neat way to get around the gender confusion and specify sex segregated spaces are protected (while still signalling that trans peoples right to use the facilities is clear)

but I doubt that is what they meant
perhaps OP could email their department and clarify

deepwatersolo · 23/10/2018 16:03

Male and female are biological terms, so it means women and transmen and should be used as such.

This may not be what the writers intended, but I guess, we all have to learn at some point that words have meanings. College is a little late for that, but, hey, better now than never.

DomesticAnarchist · 23/10/2018 15:57

Or maybe female and Male in the generally accepted structural term. As in the example pictured. Which would also account for the very small number of 'traditional' (post surgical) transsexuals.

(Although, no, I'm not about to volunteer to police this)

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