TG day of remembrance

And to just summarise your point there:

• Ok, so the TRA community treat women like shit - (and many other communities like shit too) - but women have a duty to rise above this and go on doing the right thing at all times irrespective of how they're treated, requiring nothing in return. Moral high ground, responsibility to not retaliate because the world needs to be a better place and that's obviously the sole job of people with vaginas. So the usual, extremely sexist, unequal, everyone's a mummy bollocks.

• Shame, guilt, shame shame shame. No actual engagement with any points raised, just a lot of superior shaming.

An eye for an eye? Moral high ground? That's honestly all you can comprehend or take away from anything anyone's made the effort to try to explain here?

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blinde. After this thread I no longer think feminists have the moral high ground that’s for sure

This thread certainly an eye opener.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blinde. After this thread I no longer think feminists have the moral high ground that’s for sure.

You don’t need to minimise other peoples suffering

If that was true of the trans community, the GC women here would be (as many were in the beginning) very much supporters of trans rights. However the TRA lobby continually minimises other people's suffering in order to centre their own and frame them as so much worse, so much more significant, so much more pressing, for example trying to hijack Jean Hackett's rides for murdered women. Women constantly have their experiences minimised and silenced and denied by the TRA community and their supporters. The disabled community are currently having the toilets they fought for hijacked and repurposed without being consulted or even thought worthy of notice.

Yes I'm still waiting for anyone to answer my questions about trans people who might have died from their medications or complications due to surgery?
Or when they are remembered?
I'm only asking because there was someone at the 'we're still here' conference claiming to have known 3 trans people who had died from taking hormones.
Either that's true, in which case, trans people are more danger of dying from hormones than murder, or its a lie, and a pretty strange lie to tell.
I can't knit, but I do crochet, suffragette scarfs for everyone...

Why would a poster be perceived as a hate crime?
My question exactly. But given TRAs are referring to any questioning if their dogma as hate crime, statistics that come from asking trans people if they've ever been a victim of hate crime become meaningless. Which is my other point, because it's likely real transphobia does exist, but we can't get an accurate picture because of all the reporting of non hate non crime under the hate crime label. Cry wolf.

I personally object to the framing of the trans community as the most oppressed, the most vulnerable, the most at risk when that simply isn't true.

Celebrate being trans. Don't make it into a terrible tragic thing where you're more likely to die or have appalling mental health issues.

I could get on board with that. This oppression olympics is really revolting though.

Trans people are not the only group to have attacked their body (including their genitals)

Nobody has said they are. Women aren’t the only people who get sexually abused, does that mean it’s not a problem? As I’ve said continuously groups of people are allowed to talk about issues they face, and their oppression, this does not take away from other issues in the world. You don’t need to minimise other peoples suffering, and doing so harms your debate as true feelings start shining through and it’s clear it’s not solely aimed at protecting women imo.

Why would a poster be perceived as a hate crime? Are Posie Parker and Debbie Hatton in prison? If you really think that trans people don’t face REAL transphobia in life, that’s astonishing.

The only people I've heard shouting in this debate, let alone in people's ears, are TRAs. That's rather the point. If that stat on perceived hate crime includes things like Posie's posters and Debbie Hayton's articles, then a) I'm surprised the figures are so low, and b) trans hate crime no longer looks like something people should worry about. You see what I mean about crying wolf? They are harming transgender people's interests with this determination to cast them as victims. The real transphobic incidents get lost in the sea of outrage at someone having a different opinion.

I think that’s a bit twisted, to disagree with something and to go shouting in a trans persons ear ‘you are not a women, you’re a man with a fetish’ would be two very different things.

Well I think that. There are plenty of transactivists who disagree though.

Trans people are not the only group to have attacked their body (including their genitals) because of some compulsion to change or damage it.

I'm going to put this link here, in case of lurkers who might be particularly affected by this issue: www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/self-harm/about-self-harm/#.W9HOKHtKjIU

The Royal College of Psychiatrists notes that the people most likely to self harm are young women; asylum seekers and veterans; and gay or bisexual people

Ikeepflouncing I think you’re a bit confused, I assume you’re not deliberate being obtuse. My next sentence was this -

I don’t, from experience I know someone who has but I personally don’t and never have, so I will never claim to be an expert on them and their minds.

So actually, I was saying I don’t know how it feels so I would not claim to be an expert on their minds with regards to the suicide comments. I also do not know what it’s like to be in your mind, so would never say that your suicide attempt was simply to gain sympathy or because people told you that you should to put woman in a better position politically

until the definition of a hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women

I think that’s a bit twisted, to disagree with something and to go shouting in a trans persons ear ‘you are not a women, you’re a man with a fetish’ would be two very different things.

The problem here is if women reported that sort thing as a hate crime it would run to millions and millions per day.

Until the definition of hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women, I shall, of course, remain sceptical.

YY

Have you been diagnosed with gender dysphoria? Do you know how it feels to feel like you’re in the wrong body? To cut your genitals with razor blades

Take a look around the mental health boards just for a start! Then come back with that woe card. I could sit here and say do you know what is like to be so depressed you spend a month putting things in place for your kids before walking out the door into darkness of night chugging 100 pills to use as emotional blackmail to make people believe my views. stop it!

It really giving me rage at the disservice to every person past and present who has mental health issues. Just stop it!

Here you go this site helpful the also looking for volunteers who would like to be part of new research being carried out
bddfoundation.org

Also Betty posted a valuable link
www.samm.org.uk/index.php

Have you been on forums there to promote your Remembrance Day 🤔

Lastly Jilly questions that have been posted few times you continue to ignore any particular reason why?

Me personally if I was passionate about something I be spending more time promoting that than trying to argue the point but then I would have some valid reasons, reliable facts and resources to back that campaign.

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned.

According to this article, there were 19 prosecutions for transphobic hate crime, the previous year. Despite a massive increase in reporting.

With one tw saying it wasn't always physical, it was lots of laughs, stares and comments.

The problem here is if women reported that sort thing as a hate crime it would run to millions and millions per day.

Until the definition of hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women, I shall, of course, remain sceptical.

It would also help if transactivists stopped getting caught lying (razor blades, knife threat, etc).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/transphobic-hate-crime-statistics-violence-transgender-uk-police-a7159026.html%3Famp

Firstly, I call bullshit, more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes,

What are we actually defining as a hate crime? It's quite a broad term. A transphobic murder would be a hate crime, but so potentially could misgendering be in some circumstances? Also is this an official figure or is it what self reporting people think of as hate crimes?

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned.

Shall we start applying that to everything? Sexual assault for example? I’m pretty sure the conviction rate isn’t that high there. But shall we stop believing sexual assault stats as people make anything up these days, right?

and what about women
As I’ve said many times, the oppression of one group of people doesn’t make it ok to oppress another. Crimes against women and crimes against trans are two seperate issues. Fight for women’s issues if you’re concerned, fight to make misogyny a hate crime (this is currently actually in process)

more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes

And how many women? Oh yeah, crimes against women don't count as hate crimes.

more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes
Think this answers the first part of your last question Bernard. Early does. Perhaps she can answer why.

And Early, I'm afraid I've stopped believing self identified crime stats on this subject. Given that TRAs are referring to any mention of female biology as hate crime, that stat is also part of the scaremongering.

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned. The fact that a single case of a drunk woman being convicted of assault after shouting transphobic insults (which yes I would count as hate crime) makes the news and gets its own MN thread suggests to me that actual hate crime is rare.

It's a bit of a cry wolf situation. Because of the scare tactics and labelling women's rights discussion as transphobia and sex worker murders as transphobic murders, we no longer have a good picture of how much of a problem transphobia actually is. I think it probably is still a problem including in this country though a much smaller one than is usually made out, and certainly not any increased risk of being murdered. But we just don't know because the stats being put out are so alarmist as to make them nonsense.

The day of remembrance is about people who have been killed for being trans I think?

of which there are thankfully almost none in this country. makes me proud to be british

who wants british trans people to feel unsafe in their own country and why?

yes, if I were a member of what is statistically one of the safest groups in the UK (that's trans people for those at the back)

Firstly, I call bullshit, more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes, a huge number attempt suicide. And any minority is never one of the safest people in the UK. But one death is too many, why does it bother you if they want to remember those killed or gone by suicide?

Have you been diagnosed with gender dysphoria? Do you know how it feels to feel like you’re in the wrong body? To cut your genitals with razor blades?

I don’t, from experience I know someone who has but I personally don’t and never have, so I will never claim to be an expert on them and their minds.

Imagine a bunch of men coming on here to tell us PND is just an excuse for being a shit mother. I’ve had PND I’d be fucking fuming at the accusation stated from a privilidged POV and you wonder why trans people want to fight for their voice.

On a day of rememberance, people can choose to remember whomever they wish. Be that murder or suicide victims, both of whom exist worldwide.

yes, if I were a member of what is statistically one of the safest groups in the UK (that's trans people for those at the back), I'd be really angry and a bit baffled if some extreme activists were trying to make trans people feel unsafe in this country by implying that they're at great risk of harm.

I'd also be fucking furious about the way young trans people are practically incited to suicidal ideation by people like Susie Green constantly talking about it.

So how do you guys feel about your day of remembrance being misrepresented by claiming it's only about victims of transphobic murder, or by implying to young transgender people in the UK that they're at risk? Aren't you angry about that?

"Why do you need a day"
Somebody says why....

"Stop emotionally controlling"

FGS.
This isn't for women's rights. As Earlywalker said, this thread isn't really, is it. It's verging on hate.