TG day of remembrance

I do think that there is an issue with sex work and the higher risks to those who are transgender (in Brazil at least) and I do think that is an issue that needs tackling.

Sadly the most successful model is not favourable with many TRA's or indeed Amnesty International.

JillyArmeeen

a badly done private operation that was close to killing the person and required major work to there bowel leaving them petmitly with issues for life as I said this is no easy solution to anything and no one advises anyone to just do it.

Thank you to. all the people that have called this out as it does not even serve the your goals it just shows how little disregard some people have for the rights of others to remember the people they have lost

Changing the goal posts now I’m not a lone voice I see

Yep, was just thinking the same, that's not what the tone was at the beginning of the thread, it was more completely against there being one in the first place.
Until people came on and said hang on a minute and added dissenting voices.

Changing the goal posts now I’m not a lone voice I see.

Nope, that's what loads of people on this thread have said?

Still no real comments on the appropriation by TRAs of the murders of trans sex workers in South America as a reason why they should be allowed in female spaces?

Bespin, thank you for taking the time to reply, genuinely.
When you say people have suffered, what does that mean? Did they die?
Sorry that sounds really insensitive, I just want to know what the outcome was, not too much detail.

I have known 3 people who have ended there own life though and a few others were we have helped to prevent it, some of them young people. the numbers are never importent as one is too msny I am also one of the 3/4 who have been assaulted for being trans

Nobody has a problem with it! I think it's entirely appropriate for trans people, their friends, families, LGBT groups, etc to commemorate it. The issue, again, is with the TDoR being used as a bludgeon against people who don't agree with every item on the TRA wishlist

Changing the goal posts now I’m not a lone voice I see.

JillyArmeen

To be completely honest I don’t have a clue what you’re talking about or what event you attended.. I don’t agree with the idea behind this thread, I’m in no means a TRA or expert on trans rights. Perhaps you should post your question in one of their forums?

verbeena, bespin, Jezebelz, snork, aridene

Completely agree with this @Jezebelz, couldn't have said it better.

Lol at 'couldn't have said it better'. Yes we know Verbeena.

Yep exactly what jezebelz said! Add my voice too. This thread makes me really sad

x

It's nice to get a bit of faith back, I don't care if that sounds too soppy for MN lol.

JillyArmeeen

personally I have known no one who as died from this but 2 people that have had life changing complications from surgery no one ever enters into this lightly the risks are very real. in relation to hormones again I have known people who have in the old days suffered for poor medication Regimes and imported hormones as they have been unable to get actual treatment in the nhs or even monitored by there gp which is importent

verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and early walker, aridane, snorkmaiden, would any of you be able to answer my questions please?

I too want to add my voice to those of verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and earlywalker

@aridane

This thread's not so much about women's rights and is showing something else

"Trans rememberance day has been happening since 1999, why have you not had a problem with it for the last 20 years?"

Nobody has a problem with it! I think it's entirely appropriate for trans people, their friends, families, LGBT groups, etc to commemorate it. The issue, again, is with the TDoR being used as a bludgeon against people who don't agree with every item on the TRA wishlist.

E.g.,

www.independent.co.uk/voices/transgender-rights-attack-in-media-times-article-topshop-changing-day-of-remembrance-a8058676.html
metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/on-transgender-day-of-remembrance-lets-think-about-the-children-7093571/

Yep exactly what jezebelz said! Add my voice too. This thread makes me really sad.

I too want to add my voice to those of verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and earlywalker

Can't see how this thread is anything to do with women's rights, or why anyone would begrudge trans people having a day to remember murder victims. Threads like this take away the strength of valid GC arguments as implies trans people are the problem rather than any laws or policies.

Completely agree with this @Jezebelz, couldn't have said it better. Add me to standing with EarlyWalker and Bespin as well.

I don't come on FWR often but just want to add my voice to Bespin and Earlywalker.

Can't see how this thread is anything to do with women's rights, or why anyone would begrudge trans people having a day to remember murder victims.

Threads like this take away the strength of valid GC arguments as implies trans people are the problem rather than any laws or policies.

Bespin, maybe you can answer my questions?
Do you know of any trans people who have died from their medications or complications due to surgeries?
Its just that there was someone at the 'we're still here' conference claiming to know 3 trans people who had died from taking hormones.
How prevalent is this?
I've looked around but can't find anything.

It's the positioning of transpeople as overwhelming victims of murder when the stats don't back that up at all.

Why does it matter to you? Would you like trans people to dictate what us as women remember? People have died, one murder is too many. There is a long list globally of those that have died, I know a lot of trans people are remembering suicide victims also - if they want to light a candle, how is it affecting you? How is it affecting women?

The quite intentional work to sway public opinion
Trans rememberance day has been happening since 1999, why have you not had a problem with it for the last 20 years? The assuming that remembering people that have died, as a political gain is what’s ludicrous.

They don’t speak for us doesn’t work
Do you agree with everything Theresa may says is best for Britain? I don’t, and she was elected. These are self appointed activists in the public domain, they can hold their own opinion, doesn’t mean that everyone who is the same as them agrees with it.

hi daily reminder that this thread that does not effect woman's rights and is something that is personal to a lot of the trans community is something that can be questioned and pulled apart because of reasons and some of the hate that is shown in this thread needs to be shown

No early, that isn't the issue. As has been explained to you tens of times on this thread. It's the positioning of transpeople as overwhelming victims of murder when the stats don't back that up at all.

Where's the celebration?

I agree, there's very limited point in trying to talk about this.

I would point out to you that the quite intentional work to sway public opinion, get politicians on side, 'befriend' groups to gain trust etc to further the TRA cause (which is politically an anti women, anti safeguarding etc cause) is evidenced in the public domain. Referring to that evidence is not 'nastiness', it's pointing out a serious problem.

I would also point out that those members of the Catholic church and those members of ISIS are not highly influential, being invited to speak to select committees (with all dissenting voices excluded) nor guiding the creation of law. The 'they don't speak for us' doesn't work in those circumstances unless you yourself clearly position yourself away from them, which you haven't chosen to do on this thread.

There is no 'hate' anywhere on this thread, there is just disagreement and failure to service the belief that modern equality involves respecting a prescribed hierarchy.

Knicknackpaddyflak - stop twisting things. I’ve engaged a lot. You responded to my points about not minimilising trans suffering with a stomp of your feet and ‘but woman suffer too’ after I’ve said hundreds of times, that the oppression of one group does not make it ok to oppress another. And that some outspoken TRA do not stand for a whole community. You are the ones not engaging, by refusing to admit that trans people suffer and instead just repeating ‘woman suffer too’ as if everyone here does not already understand and agree with that. I was the one who pointed out the woman’s day of rememberance of those suffering DA, I’m pretty sure that event had gone right over most heads here, unlike the trans day of remembrance. Funny that.

Yep, This is a thread about a rememberance day for transgender people who have died, this is nothing at all to do with woman’s rights. But people seem to think that it’s all been constructed to gain sympathy so they can get in our toilets... that’s the issue, yes? All your talk about TRAs and how they’re taking from the disabled and they’re making things up and shouting about this and that.. I’ve heard it a hundred times, that’s not what this is about. I’ve said my piece and In my opinion it is incredibly wrong that there is so much minimising of issues that trans face. Disagree with the ideology behind it - fine, fight for segregated spaces - again no issue, but the rest and what’s demonstrated here is just pure nastiness.

In no other group of people do we base the entire group solely on the ones we hear about more. We don’t tarr all Muslims with the ‘ISIS’ brush, or all catholics with the ‘Pedo’ brush for example, yet when it comes to trans issues people don’t think twice about dismissing real suffering based on a few outspoken TRA’s views and to deny that a group, which you are not part of and therefore speaking from a privilidged POV, has a right to remember those dead in their own way- is just appalling.

Nothing I say will make you think twice, in here you are with your own people. Everyone will say I’m just not seeing clearly or I’m too blinded but no, this is not about women, this is about hating that you cannot wholeheartedly deny that there is some oppression going on, because then you have to admit that maybe not every trans person is a man in a dress having a giggle.