TG day of remembrance

Bloody hell - that question mark after 'a good thing' should NOT be there. I have reported my post to MNHQ and asked them to edit it.

Thanks for that link Earlywalker. I shall be marking that in my diary and disseminating the date to those I know.

Earlywalker the sentiment of wanting to remember those who have been victims of discrimination and violence is admirable. However the manner of expression and actions are inconsistent.

If TWAW then why isn't there more noise about a day of remembrance for the two women killed in the UK every week as a result of domestic violence? There have been no trans murders (a good thing) so why ignore the community you are claiming membership of, which is right on your doorstep?

If trans-sex workers in Brazil are at much higher risk of fatal violence, then why do so many TRAs oppose the Nordic model - which criminalises the men who buy sex - and instead propose full legalisation - which has been shown to increase human trafficking and sex slavery?

When viewed through those lenses, it feels less like a day of remembrance and more like an opportunity to appropriate someone else's suffering in the name of a fashionable cause.

message tweaked by MNHQ

"To expand, we obviously want people to remember their dead loved ones, but when said people don't have dead loved ones, or any sort of connection/friendship/etc with them it's hard to see this as other than a political act, and hence subject to criticism."

In your view, is that true of all days of remembrance, or only this one?

25th november, white ribbon has over 175k likes on Facebook, so it does have exposure.

Thanks Early - what date is it? I followed your link and couldn’t see it - might be why people don’t know about it!

It clearly needs a better push for recognition.

Also there is a rememberance day for woman abused by men - www.whiteribbon.org.uk

But it’s obvious where your minds are at. It’s a shame ‘feminists’ don’t care about that sort of stuff anymore though unless it fits their agenda.

I don't really see that it's appropriation, and I don't see how it's so impossible that a white trans person in the UK could feel some affinity with a black or Latinx trans person in the US, enough that they want to light a candle for them or whatever once a year.

As a lesbian in this country, I don't feel worried for my own safety, but I do feel strongly moved by the dangers and persecution faced by lesbians in some parts of the world. It feels close to home even though I know I'm fine. As a Christian, I remember those persecuted for their faith abroad in our intercession prayers, whilst knowing that it's a terribly middle-of-the-road identity where I am. As a feminist, my heart aches for the many many women still dying at the hands of current and previous partners, even though i do not know any personally and don't really see those women as 'me' any more than I do the lesbians subject to corrective rape in South Africa.

I have complicated thoughts about trans issues and major issues with the Stonewall approach but this is stupid whataboutery.

QuietContraryMary, I've cut and pasted those names into this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/1065291-Victims-of-Violence

There's never been a day of remembrance for all the women killed by men. Ever. The very idea would be viewed as anathema. As has so often been said, it's amazing how far transideology has spread so quickly - wouldn't happen if they were women, and we can prove it so easily!

If being GC is all about protecting women’s rights, please tell me how a transgender day of rememberance erodes your rights?

If this is all in the name of women, how does it affect women? Or is it just another reason for you to have a bash at transgender people? God forbid they remember people who have been murdered, I mean who do they think they are

Good point QuietContraryMary. If you don't have 'skin in the game' (so to speak) then it feels like appropriation and grief vampirism ("Oh gosh I'm so upset because X has died - my hairdresser's, cousin's, bus driver's nan. Everyone be nice to me!").

To expand, we obviously want people to remember their dead loved ones, but when said people don't have dead loved ones, or any sort of connection/friendship/etc with them it's hard to see this as other than a political act, and hence subject to criticism.

Sophie Lancaster was murdered for the way she presented herself.

Transgender Day of Remembrance would be a good day to celebrate the resilience of trans people who break expectations, particularly toxic expectations of men, every day.

"That doesn’t mean we want to take any opportunity to denigrate trans people or mock a day that people have chosen to remember others."

Oh come off it.

When Aimee Challenor stands up: blog.aimeec.co.uk/2016/11/18/cu-tdor/ to talk about the murder of African-Americans as somehow relevant to Aimee's identity as a white British transwoman, that's gaslighting BS.

And doubly so when Aimee stood by & employed a child rapist. Aimee doesn't have to look too far from home to see the effects of male sexual power and abuse.

But instead Aimee constructs a false narrative based on a murder in Boston. I don't see that there's any difference between 'trans day of remembrance' in that respect and TRAs claiming that 50% of trans children will try to kill themselves. At least the latter has SOME kind of founding in reality.

White men appropriating the murders of black people and making out that there's an existential threat to trans people's existence is absolutely part of the lobbying process.

I simply will not accept that even those of us with a very hardline GC stance regarding legal definitions of male and female are actually transphobic or wish anything but happiness for trans individuals.

Completely, 100%, agree with this. I am gender critical because I think gender is a load of made-up stereotypical bollocks that needs to be completely deconstructed. I also do not believe that humans can change their sex and that someone with a penis can be female. Those views do not equate to wishing any harm on trans-identified individuals. My objection is to women's rights being eroded and the very definition of the word being stripped away from us. If agreement was reached on that point and women's rights were protected and respected then I would quite happily campaign for separate and distinct protections for trans-people - as I have done in the past.

Some info on TDOR:
4thwavenow.com/2018/05/25/the-open-society-foundations-the-transgender-movement/

OSF gave $500,000 to Transgender Europe in the past two years. Transgender Europe also received $1,072,000 from the Arcus Foundation from 2010 to 2017 (Arcus Foundation 2018). The organization’s projects include the Transgender Day of Remembrance, which is underpinned by a comprehensive database of victims throughout the world, Trans Murder Monitoring. This database counted 325 trans victims of violence in year from October 2016 to September 2017 (TMM 2017). The great majority of these occurred in Central and South America. There were only three in Western Europe, and thankfully none in the United Kingdom. Surprisingly, perhaps, the Transgender Day of Remembrance was widely observed in Britain in November 2017. In many universities, for example, candles were lit for each of the victims, the transgender flag was raised, speakers were invited, and services held. Searching university websites (the domain .ac.uk), we find over 2,800 webpages containing the phrase “Transgender Day of Remembrance”.

While no transgender person was murdered in the United Kingdom in 2017, 138 women were killed by men, including murders where a man was the principal suspect (Smith 2018). These data were compiled by Karen Ingala Smith, who receives no funding for this work. She started recording such deaths in 2009, under the rubric of Counting Dead Women. This was developed into the Femicide Census—in partnership with Women’s Aid—with minimal funding and pro-bono support by two legal firms (Femicide Census 2016).

Despite the diligent research over many years, this has left barely a trace in British universities. The equivalent search on their websites yields fewer than a hundred webpages containing the phrases “Femicide Census” or “Counting Dead Women”.

Totally agree Resistance - all this pro prostitution stuff is bad for women AND transpeople.

I would absolutely support any actions that draw similar attention to women lost to violence.

Jean Hatchet’s Rides for Murdered Women are incredibly inspirational. What could we do as a collective?

I don't object to anyone wanting to remember victims of murder and discrimination.

I do, however, wonder how the significant incidence of trans-women sex workers being murdered aligns to the popular TRA view that sex work should be legitimised. Surely the Nordic model would offer better protection for those trans-women and considerably reduce their risk of physical harm. Yet we are decried as SWERFs for offering up the view that prostitution is exploitative and dangerous.

I find, with increasing regularity, that many of the arguments offered by radical TRAs are incompatible with each other.

I think it’s important for minority communities to remember lost ones and have no criticism for TDOR at all.

I am also in support of Trans visibility day.

.................

I simply will not accept that even those of us with a very hardline GC stance regarding legal definitions of male and female are actually transphobic or wish anything but happiness for trans individuals.

I think that no transgender people were murdered in this country in 2017 which is great. lots of women were though.

That doesn’t mean we want to take any opportunity to denigrate trans people or mock a day that people have chosen to remember others.

Haven't done either of those.

Not 'whipping up hatred', either, just pointing out that you are being lied to quite often.

Why on earth would you have a problem with a day of remembrance for people being killed because of the way they present?

Because, at least in the UK, it doesn't happen. The vast majority of trans people who are killed are Brésilien and American sex workers, and the risk of violent death when doing street work is sky-high.
Does anyone know if there's been a comparison of the death rate between natal women and of transwomen working in the sex industry? (Ugh, that reads so very horribly. And I can't write very well tonight).

People being attacked for being trans "literally doesn't happen?"
Since when? Of course it does.

Don't move the goalposts. The Trans Day of Remembrance is for victims of transphobic murder. Not for people who've 'been attacked'. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

Again, transphobic murder does not exist in the UK.