TG day of remembrance

"These are men appropriating what's happened to others for attention" - who are men you're meaning here? The trans community/ transwomen wanting to remember women who were attacked/murdered? It doesn't affect women's rights at all to let transpeople have a day of remembrance for those hurt just for being themselves.

The thing is, they're not doing these things out of some love and solidarity and awareness-raising.

The reason they are doing this is to make it seem to people who aren't engaged at all with real statistics that they're being murdered en-masse.

These activists ignore the way that actual transpeople have died; they don't give a shit about their working or living conditions or do anything to improve or help them, they don't look at the actual stories or statistics - they just lie and exaggerate and take sad selfies.

These are men, appropriating what's actually happened to others, for attention. They are absolutely grief vampires.

By all means think I'm heartless for observing that - but once you see through narcissists and realise that some people just lie for attention, you can't un-see it and join in anymore.

"Those murdering sex workers should be ashamed" - it's nothing to DO with that though, it's a day of remembrance for people being attacked or murdered for being themselves! Completely different nothing to do with scenario. Why would you begrudge transwomen a day of remembrance? How does it affect you in the slightest? Some of these comments ARE vile, it's nothing to do with wanting to "silence women" FGS

No

November already has a booking for Remembrance Day.

It’s also the opportunity to help promote moreso during this time the British Legion who continue to help & support families not just past but present and future.

November is booked up also it’s month Campaign to highlight for Men’s health, even though I can’t grow moustache I still help support and remember those.

My family relatives who are gay/lesbian say no too.

What a heartless bunch we are!

And yes to poster who mentioned about Jean Hatchet that woman is truely remarkable.

Some of the comments on this thread are utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves

Blatant shaming of women into silence there. Not subtle at all.

oopster

I’m really tired of you just appearing to tell women here we should be ashamed. You’ve got nothing to contribute other than that.

It’s about remembering those who have been murdered simply for being themselves. Some of the comments on this thread are utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves

Again with the ‘you should be ashamed’. No. Those murdering sex workers should be ashamed. Those covering up the suffering of sex workers should be ashamed.

They were not murdered for ‘being themselves’. That’s the point. Falsifying murder stats is wrong and should be called out.

It’s about remembering those who have been murdered simply for being themselves

But the vast majority haven't been murdered for 'simply being themselves' there is another factor involved. They have been murdered/killed AND are transgender.

It is fine to remember people killed or have died, however it is not ok to use the death of someone to falsify claims.

I can't bring myself to grumble about Transgender Day of Remembrance, I don't think it does any harm.

What does really boil my piss is when people like Munroe Bergdorf use the murders of South American trans sex workers so that they can tell everyone that as a 'transwoman of colour' they have a life expectancy of 35.

Now that is out of order.

It’s about remembering those who have been murdered simply for being themselves. Some of the comments on this thread are utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

Sorry but I can’t help thinking you sound like Trump and other MRA’s telling women they are both nasty and not feminist. It’s not a good look.

I think observing a day of remembrance in solidarity with other people in less fortunate parts of the world is great. But I think there are a couple of valid points.

Firstly that it actually appears the majority were murdered for being sex workers, so I find it really wrong not to have that acknowledged & for the reasons behind their deaths to be attributed to something that is unlikely to have been a major contributing factor. In order to protect and prevent more deaths, honesty about why they are being killed is crucial.

Secondly, I think at least on social media we do see the myth that trans people are at a higher risk of being murdered, that can both unnecessarily frighten trans youth and affect the conversations we are having with regards to these law changes. Part of the message from TRA’s is that transgender people are the most vunerable group and therefore require protection, even if it conflicts with existing women’s rights. I understand that others here think it’s bad form to comment on remberance days and think they’re not something any of us should consider threatening in any way- that’s our natural instinct to sympathise and be respectful. I do however think there are valid points to discuss away from the day itself. I also think that many women are at the end of their patience and politeness, our special days are being appropriated and shared with others we don’t think belong remember, the words we use to describe ourselves in fact! So if you are asking women to back away from ‘trans days/issues/special things’ and respect those, you’ve got to do that both ways. That’s not the situation we are in.

"The fact is, being transgender and knowing that people in the world have been murdered for being the same as you WILL scare you and make you want to remember them."

That isn't really what happens though.

TDoR will remember, for instance Vanesa Campos, who was killed in Paris for

"attempting to stop robbers stealing her client’s car"

Vanesa was not killed because she was transgender.

Vanesa was an immigrant from Peru

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/nemz3m/vanesa-campos-sex-worker-murder-protests

There's a lot to unpick in that narrative, but at no point is it 'murdered for being the same as you'.

In some countries homosexual men are encouraged to transition. Some people twitter.com/yashar/status/1054111320298029056 are saying that Iran is more progressive than the USA, because in Iran they will stone you to death for homosexuality if you don't transition. That's where we are at this point.

I don't see there being too much in common between cultures or subcultures with very rigid heteronormative sex roles where those stepping out are told they are transgender/third sex, encouraged to get castrated, etc., and the modern Western culture of transwomen 'lesbians' loudly demanding to win women's sport, suck my she-penis, etc.

It’s so wrong and I hope more woman and girls don’t suffer while the ‘feminist’ attention is focused solely on one thing.

Do behave.

The UN have designated November 25 as the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

Shall we have a new thread to look at what we can do on that date for women?

Yes!

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

The points people are making on this thread are about the conscious manipulation and how this is being deliberately used to make it unacceptable to defend safeguarding. You are joining in on this manipulation for telling people they are nasty and should be ashamed. Any irony in the point you make about "dressing it up as feminism", no? as you can't see you are doing exactly what the thread is highlighting I doubt it.

"Killed for being the same as you" is rather a stretch unless you're a streetwalker in a very violent culture too. But go on then, some names, some stories? I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this event if I saw some actual remembering going on. We've all heard the stories from 9/11 and the world wars and recent terrorist events which are commemorated.

Well said @EarlyWalker

Why does it matter that they were killed in Brazil or the USA mostly?

I care about women and girls who have been raped/murdered in any country because the reasons are part of a wider misogyny that I think is troubling.

So they shouldn’t have a day of rememberance because most people that were killed were in Brazil? How ridiculous. I remember 9/11 every year, I don’t live in New York. Is that just a pity party to get us to love trump and his ideology? That is how you all sound.

The fact is, being transgender and knowing that people in the world have been murdered for being the same as you WILL scare you and make you want to remember them. Just like knowing some kids in Africa don’t have clean water to drink while you watch your toddler throw hers up the wall - there are times where you think of firstly, how lucky you are and secondly that someone in the world is in the same position as you ( a mother for example or a transgender person) and there fight is so much harder than yours and you want to acknowledge that.

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

And what’s worse is that an actual day dedicated to fighting against violence against women was not in the ‘feminism’ talk subjects, but a hate thread about a transgender day was.

It’s so wrong and I hope more woman and girls don’t suffer while the ‘feminist’ attention is focused solely on one thing.

I can understand trans people feeling a connection to any trans person who is murdered on the other side of the world and I have no issue with a day of remembrance, as long as it is made absolutely clear that the figures used are global and do not reflect the UK.

Equally no murder figure, however high or low, is ever going to persuade me that human beings can change sex.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/22/hate-crime-attack-chester-transgender-women/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Buffer&utm_campaign=PN

www.un.org/en/sections/observances/international-days/

Lots of international days to do with women and girls recognised by the UN.

I think there's a lot of conflating of two different issues going on here. As I said, there are valid talking points around the misrepresentation and politicising of statistics on crime towards trans people.

I also think there is no reason to object to the simple existence of a 'day' that you can very well just ignore. I am concerned about how transgender ideology becoming enshrined in law will impact the sex-based rights of women and girls and the impacts of premature transition on minors. I don't care what trans people do or think as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on others. I wish them to live happy lives. It is beyond me to see how some other people observing a non-compulsory day of remembrance for people they feel solidarity with could possibly be any of my business.

So if people are throwing around misinformation in an attempt to score political points, call it out by all means. If people are just lighting some candles or whatever they want to do to honour an issue close to their hearts, even if you think it's not a real issue or they don't even genuinely care, why does it matter?

There's a time for live and let live and this is definitely it.

Aye.