TG day of remembrance

On Naomi Hersi , I believe the case is still sub judice, hence limited comments on it (on here and in the wider press)

Before anyone has a go at me for raising pedophilia here, John Money was the doctor who butchered David & destroyed his family. His parents blamed him for both suicides.

We can start with commemorating David Reimer and other victims driven to suicide by failed trans experimentation.

One of the saddest stories, I can’t imagine the pain his parents were left in after both children committed suicide. John Money also believed in ‘affectionate pedophilia’ and that we should differentiate it from ‘sadistic pedophilia’.

So would I. Is there any such initiative by any of the trans lobby groups we see given so much media attention?

I'm not sure. Perhaps the trans advocates on this thread could tell us?

I also think that Transgender Day of Remembrance is also to remember those who have died through suicide. Of those, there are definitely many more

We can start with commemorating David Reimer and other victims driven to suicide by failed trans experimentation.

To take that problem and use it to make out that trans people are specific murder targets all over the world is totally disingenous, and also quite insulting to the victims of these murders

^^

Terrorism being a form of extremism......

I sense you want to make a point here about extremism but I'm not sure what it is?

The trans sex workers murdered in South American are murdered because they are sex workers and vulnerable, and because the rates of homicide there are huge. Not because they are trans. The murder rate there does point to a form of extremism I guess, but it's not extremism against trans people specifically. The reasons why it's such a dangerous place to live are many and complex.

VerbeenaBeeks

You’re asking the same questions and being given the same answers. I’m not wasting my time answering them with slightly different words. The problems have been made crystal clear by myself and others.

I don't have an issue with a group of people wanting to have a day of remembrance for whatever reason. I do feel uncomfortable if the reasons for having that day appear to be less about genuine remembrance and more about co-opting someone else's tragedy for the purpose of making a political statement.

This.

Loads of female sex workers are murdered in Brazil. Loads of men are as well. The homicide rates in those countries are horrific, it's a huge problem.

To take that problem and use it to make out that trans people are specific murder targets all over the world is totally disingenous, and also quite insulting to the victims of these murders.

The murder of Naomi Hersi was awful and I really don't have a problem with people coming together to remember her.

No it isnt. Because when we remember those victims of 9/11, we remember why they were killed. That they were victims of terrorism

Awful atrocity, and rightly remembered.
You're right here though - Terrorism, yes, they were. Terrorism being a form of extremism......

Also, why should sex-workers be considered any less important to be remembered than anyone else? The fact that many of them may have been forced into that lifestyle just to survive, is surely reason to be more sympathetic towards them, not less??
You'd have thought.

Again, the issue is they are murderered because they are sex workers. If that was the focus of the rememberance day, we wouldn’t be having this discussion
That reads like you're wanting to conveniently airbrush out the fact they are trans, and wanting to just say "they're sexworkers, nothing more to it".
If they're trans, and wanting to remember other trans who were hurt or killed, why not let them? It hurts you not one bit.

Exactly, RedHoodGirl, are we only supposed to be sympathetic if it's our tragedy? 9/11 was mentioned upthread somewhere - so taking that as an example, I personally have no ties or know anyone in New York - should I think it's nothing to do with me, I'm co-opting and jumping on someone else's tragedy?
It's along the same line of thinking

No it isnt. Because when we remember those victims of 9/11, we remember why they were killed. That they were victims of terrorism. We don’t use their deaths for another cause.

I would certainly applaud any initiative to get MTF trans people out of prostitution as an exploitative high risk means of survival by giving them exit strategies, as I do women.

So would I. Is there any such initiative by any of the trans lobby groups we see given so much media attention?

Exactly, RedHoodGirl, are we only supposed to be sympathetic if it's our tragedy? 9/11 was mentioned upthread somewhere - so taking that as an example, I personally have no ties or know anyone in New York - should I think it's nothing to do with me, I'm co-opting and jumping on someone else's tragedy?
It's along the same line of thinking.
I can have compassion and realise that it's not all about me, there are people out there with their own struggles and why would I have a problem with them having a day of remembrance for those hurt/fallen/abused either verbally or physically?

Red

Again, the issue is they are murderered because they are sex workers. If that was the focus of the rememberance day, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Also, why should sex-workers be considered any less important to be remembered than anyone else? The fact that many of them may have been forced into that lifestyle just to survive, is surely reason to be more sympathetic towards them, not less??

Some of you get it, thank you.

I we’re saying that there shouldn’t be a Transgender Day of Remembrance because it’s ‘co-opting someone else’s tragedy’ then surely we should also stop having a minutes silence for those who died in WW1? In the same vein, could Jean Hatchet be considered to be ‘co-opting someone else’s tragedy’ in riding to remember a dead woman that she doesn’t personally know?

It’s perfectly reasonable to have a day to compassionately and sympathetically think about people other than those you know personally.

You are not a targeted group. The group targeted in the large number of murders are sex workers. That’s why they were murdered.

Transpeople are not a targeted group? Are you being serious? Sadly, I think you are.
Even say if the large number of murders was because they were sex workers, why on earth can't transpeople have a day of remembrance to remember transwomen who were killed?
Transpeople do get attacked or abuse thrown at them just for being trans, surely you cannot deny that.

Could prejudice against trans people be preventing them from getting regular jobs?

Yes I agree with that as a possible factor. Prostitution has a murder risk in the US of approx 20 times the general murder rate and undoubtedly higher in Latin America. I would certainly applaud any initiative to get MTF trans people out of prostitution as an exploitative high risk means of survival by giving them exit strategies, as I do women.

I do feel uncomfortable if the reasons for having that day appear to be less about genuine remembrance and more about co-opting someone else's tragedy for the purpose of making a political statement.

Yes. This sums it up well.

You are not a targeted group. The group targeted in the large number of murders are sex workers. That’s why they were murdered. Brazil itself has the highest rates of homicide in the world so the fact that’s where most of them occur is not surprising either. Their trans status is not the reason. In the UK, you’re less likely to be a victim of homicide as a trans woman, than a man is. Having a day of rememberance in a country where you are less likely to be a victim of homicide, and using deaths of sex workers in another country as a reasoning, absolutely deserves some scrutiny.

The only acceptable number of lives lost is none. Zero. Nada.

Murder - whatever the motivation and reasons for it - is wrong, and if someone is murdered simply because they are different in some way, then that is repugnant.

I don't have an issue with a group of people wanting to have a day of remembrance for whatever reason. I do feel uncomfortable if the reasons for having that day appear to be less about genuine remembrance and more about co-opting someone else's tragedy for the purpose of making a political statement.

The comments seem to suggest that there shouldn’t be a day of remembrance, which to me implies you’re saying we’re not important enough. We’re people, we bloody deserve it like any other targeted group deserves it.

Well said