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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Consultation closed! Well done everyone!!

129 replies

naivetyisthenewblack · 22/10/2018 13:12

So, that's it then. Well done everyone, for everything we've achieved in the last year.

My goodness my world has shifted!

At the beginning of 2017, I was a Labour voter, wasn't involved in any active campaigning, my feminism was an identity (no pun intended!) instead of an action. I only read the Guardian, never nasty Tory papers like the Daily Mail / Spectator / The Times. And I assumed most lefty men understood about male violence and supported feminism.

All that has changed.

I've met some fucking awesome women though, falling down this rabbit hole.

This is for all of you fucking awesome women. A five minute pause, at least for Gin and Cake - before we move on to the next phase

Thank you mumsnetters, for opening my eyes to what was actually going on.

OP posts:
naivetyisthenewblack · 23/10/2018 14:02

I heard of a Muslim woman who got 1,000 people to do the consultation via her mosque and other networks. As far as I know, they didn't use the one-click consultation link.

OP posts:
DaisyTwirl · 23/10/2018 14:01

I am slightly different to many on here, in that I wasn't a guardian reader, or traditional lefty type.

I am slightly right of centre, brexit voting, working class, have worked all of my adult life in a male-dominated role & did not think of myself as a 'feminist'.
I was not politically motivated in any way more than voting or expressing my political opinions on fb/in person to friends.

Over the last 12 months I have become massively vocal online & in real life - I have even written to my MP twice. I have also donated what I can afford to the various campaigns (I am now single parent, student, on benefits so it's not a huge amount, just a tenner here & there).

I have, at 43, discovered the ideological hill that I am prepared to die on.
I cannot go back to being quiet on this issue as the scales have been ripped from my eyes now.

I thank all the brilliant, amazing women of MN & beyond who have been a part of my awakening & who have played a part (however big or small) in this grassroots movement.

I will continue to stand up & be counted & will never again be quiet or amenable on the issue of women's rights.

Thank you all 💐💜💚✊

RiverTam · 23/10/2018 13:59

don't panic people, I'm trying to get to the bottom of this.

naivetyisthenewblack · 23/10/2018 13:52

RedHoodGirl yes those with identical answers don't have the weight of individually written answers.

They will be taken into consideration as part of the consultation, but more weight will be given to individual submissions.

Which is as it should be, don't you think?

This will be the same for all groups who did this, both GC and trans groups.

They also check for lots of submissions from the same IP address.

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/10/2018 13:43

On the other hand, several of my gender critical feminist friends who filled it out didn't even know about the Fair Play guidance let alone the one click option, ( Shock) so I wonder what other routes people have come to it by.

Bonions · 23/10/2018 13:30

If harrop and Jones (I think) did theirs via one click, I wonder how many bothered to fill it out individually.

Of the 15 people I managed to get to fill it out, I was the only one to fill it out individually so I’m not sure which way I’d want it to go.

RedHoodGirl · 23/10/2018 12:51

Yes, I think so. However there were many more trans organisations prompting people to complete their submissions individually, than GC platforms.

Bonions · 23/10/2018 12:43

Would they not have to do the same with all stonewall submissions then?

RedHoodGirl · 23/10/2018 12:38

I’ve just read that all of the submissions made through the FairPlay For Women website will be considered as a petition by the government, so will only count as one single submission. Is this true? Does anyone have any more information on this?

concretesieve · 23/10/2018 10:48

Flowers Flowers Flowers

concretesieve · 23/10/2018 10:46

Huge thanks and complete respect and admiration here, too |flowers]

GulagsMyArse · 23/10/2018 10:41

Female Solidarity is amazing!!

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 23/10/2018 10:36

Female solidarity is a beautiful, beautiful thing, *Floral". Sisterhood is powerful, to use a phrase from my youth.

FloralBunting · 23/10/2018 09:54

Much respect and love to you all. You have changed my life - regulars and lurkers alike. That's all there is to it. I never before believed that women were as brilliant as I do this year, or understood what female solidarity was like.

LangCleg · 23/10/2018 09:12

Have I passed the course at Mumsnet University of Bigots.

Yes. Stick around for postgrad!

2BorNot2Bvocal · 23/10/2018 08:51

Love that poem.

Dragon3 · 23/10/2018 08:20

You lot are alright actually, given that your supposed to be a bunch of 40+yr old bored SAHM nut jobs.

Grin

It's our secret disguise! Welcome IKF.

IKeepFlouncing · 23/10/2018 01:54

I can’t believe how long I had been living in bubble, or what made me stumble over here as was section I always avoided.

Not as clever as most of you lot and I be honest a lot goes over my head if it not in real layman terms.

It’s been rollercoaster of emotions, utterly relentless at times and I only been speaking up for a while.

Feel proud that I been out there speaking to just about anyone who I pass, especially meeting with school, probably got my email address on spammer lists now the amount of people, companies & authorties Contacted.

You lot are alright actually, given that your supposed to be a bunch of 40+yr old bored SAHM nutjobs.

Have I passed the course at Mumsnet University of Bigots.

That poem by Irishgirl 👏

Rebecca36 · 23/10/2018 00:48

I'm by nature a socialist but what has been said about T May is quite dreadful.

naivetyisthenewblack · 23/10/2018 00:46

Another poem, I hope it's OK to reproduce it. It's by Irischild irischild.blogspot.com/2018/09/i-will-not-say-it-tran-i-am.html

I will not say it, tran-I-am

I am woman
you are man
we cannot change that, tran-I-am

you'd make me say that we're the same
I do not want to play that game

but what if I can wear a skirt?
and tell you that my feelings hurt?

what if my long hair I curl
can't you see I'm now a girl?

what if I begin to knit?
you'll agree that makes me it

what if I put on a bra?
say that changes who we are

a woman cannot be a man
it cannot happen tran-I-am

what if my identity
tells me you're the same as me?

what if all my friends agree,
will you say that you're like me?

what if I am really funny?
what if I withhold your money?

I will not say it tran-I-am
I will not say you're not a man

what if I am in your space?
would you say it to my face?

what if all the legal courts
say I can be in your sports?

what if laws are made for me
stopping you from stopping me?

what if a panel all agreed
gave me the paper I said I need?

I do not like to make a fuss
but you do not belong with us
and when my sisters tell you no
the thing for you to do is go

what if doctors all agree
I hate my body, can't you see?

what if I cut off my willy?
I'm a woman then, you silly

what if men all over earth
tell me I was mixed at birth?

what I am is not like you
you say you're me
but that's not true
you say that we are both the same
we're clearly not and that is plain

what if truth becomes a crime?
would you say it, given time?

what if I hit you in the head?
what if I claim you want me dead?

would you say it for a judge?
why oh why will you not budge?

would you say it if I danced?
would you say it in a trance?
would you say it pretty please?
will you say it on your knees?
would you say it to a fox?
would you say it if I doxx?
would you say it if I'm pretty?
would you if I called you shitty?
what if I call you a name,
will you say we are the same?
would you say it if I hid?
would you say it to a kid?
would you say it if I'm backed?
would you say it when you're sacked?
would you say it to a mayor?
would you say it anywhere?
I'm not like the others,see
will you say it just for me?

say it!
say it!
say it please!
just repeat it after me

not if you dance
not in a trance
not if you plead
not if I bleed
not to a fox
not if you doxx
not if you're backed
not if I'm sacked
not for your please
not on my knees
not to a judge
I will not budge
I would not say it if you hid
I'll never say it to a kid
I would not say it to a mayor
I will not say it anywhere!

I will not say you're not a man
I will not say it, tran-I-am!

say it!
say it!
make it true
say that I am just like you

I do not want to tell a lie
and say that you're the same as I
there's nothing that a man can do
to make him me when he is you
I will not say it just for you
I will not say what isn't true
I will not say it from a jail

I will always know you're male

~Irischild

OP posts:
boatyardblues · 23/10/2018 00:13

Wonderful poem, Super. Thank you.

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 22/10/2018 23:56

www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/502/the-low-road

Another poem.

Especially for prawn and Ida and any of us who have to measure out our energy in teaspoons rather than handfuls.

You've all made such a difference.

Needmoresleep · 22/10/2018 23:35

A huge thank you to Posie, Dr Nic and many many more. You did so much and must all be exhausted.

Look back and enjoy the progress that has been achieved. Let’s hope it is enough.

Do let us know how we can help.

IdaBWells · 22/10/2018 23:21

I was working on my submission to the consultation a few weeks ago. I am also dealing with bone cancer right now. Filling that thing out was so depressing, in how there was clearly no thought about how it would affect women in comparison to trans people who had lots of questions aimed directly at them. I am a very positive person but it was dragging me down. I also took a couple of weeks away from the feminist boards, although I love this place, the intensity of the fight was getting to me. It's awful to know that we are needing to fight AGAIN for our rights when previous generations of women had already fought for their daughters and granddaughters.

In the end I found that one of the womens groups had created the one stop, already completed consultation and so I did that instead and also got at least two other women who hadn't known about these issues to complete it to.

The positive results of this consultation is we now have, I believe 4 women's organizations that didn't exist before. As well as mobilizing thousands of women. I have given money to crowdfunding for these groups for the first time in my life. It makes me laugh that the opposition claim that the American right wing are supporting us when we all know it's hundreds and thousands of small donations that are doing it (and many MNers are on the left but the left have abandoned us and are now abusing us!). Their misogyny can't conceive of us organizing meaningfully and in the numbers that we have. Same regarding the conspiracy theories they have about the professionalism of the marketing and campaigns. Their misogyny prevents them from comprehending the numbers of qualified, talented women in the world!

ThePonderer · 22/10/2018 23:03

My MP is one of the signatories to the "Media all biased, couldn't they just shut up about anything that doesn't fit our ideology?" letter.

She was a science teacher but apparently feelings are more important than logic now. And more important than democracy - God forbid that there should be an open debate if there's a possibility of upsetting someone.

Is there any point writing to her, do you think? Or should I direct my energies elsewhere?

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