R4 World at One: Janice Turner and Helen Belcher

Belcher said in the 80s people said lesbians weren't women. Did they? I don't remember that

Belcher said that in the 1850s people said black people weren't people. Don't know whether that's true or not (I'm not that old)

I was at Greenham for a short spell. We were 'dirty women', 'terrible women', non-gender-conforming women, all-sorts-of women, but we were most definitely women.

Humans are chromosomal humans. And women are chromosomal women.

No-one is 'assigned human' ffs.

And gender is an icing on that chromosomal cake.

(I'm a scientist. And a non-soft-voiced woman.)

There was a huge amount of rhetoric, both written and spoken in the last quarter of last century from men eroticising lesbian sex.

It’s always been the largest sub genre of porn. I doubt many of the men beating off to it think they’re watching two men.

Hell, some men prefer lesbian porn because they think the sight of another man’s erection will give them the gay.

Belcher is 55.

Just posted this in another thread so adding it here for tidiness reasons:

Belcher appears in the studio segment, starts from 6.10

.i don’t remember that at all.

Me neither. If anything, they were misguided women who just needed a good seeing to. In other words, desirable women.

There was a huge amount of rhetoric, both written and spoken in the last quarter of last century from men eroticising lesbian sex. It was considered a number one male sexual fantasy - offensive and pathetic perhaps but the opposite of people accusing lesbians of being men.i don’t remember that at all.

I like this comment

"So basically saying yes you did drive these teenager to suicide, that she wants in on wimenspace, & questioning this is akin to homophobia & racism got it."

How old is Belcher? Because there will be a lot of people listening to that programme who know full well that in the 80s lesbians were definitely considered women. 🤣

Also the comment where she says I don't want men wandering around my loo? If anyone googles Belcher that comment is going to come across as daft.

But, for me, the most telling part of that programme was that Janice and Belcher were not in the studio at the same time. I'm assuming that's because Belcher wouldn't do it?

Just listened - thanks for the link.

Janice's outrage at the despicable suicide threat used to silence debate came over well.

Good that the BBC aired it.

Last week Belcher was on Newsnight saying wouldn't it be nice if this was a discussion rather than a debate. If they mean why does there need to be a winner, it's because women stand to lose when the trans activists overreach into women's rights.

Crikey - Belcher actually admits that injuring a trans person’s perceived self identity causes rage.

That’s not a good look.

Belcher said in the 80s people said lesbians weren't women. Did they? I don't remember that.

I did a double take when I heard that. I'm 61 and have been an out lesbian since American Pie first hit the charts. I tried to think of any instance of people claiming that lesbians weren't women. I remember a lot of unflattering stuff being said, but never anyone claiming that lesbians weren't women.

Until it struck me that one of the perennial annoyances at lesbian clubs were those creepy blokes who tried to wheedle their way in by claiming to be lesbians trapped in male bodies.

Oh how we laughed as we kicked them out the door! Those must be the lesbians Belcher was referring to, it's the only explanation that makes sense. Perhaps Belcher was one of them and still bears a grudge?That would explain an awful lot.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000sz7

From 29:15ish

Kathleen Stock is indeed a professor now. I was delighted when this was announced shortly after the Woke began trying to get her fired. She mentioned the other day that she frequently has stickers left on her office door alleging that she is a T* and so forth. She is a wonderfully brave woman, and so clear and clever, as is Janice Turner.

Going to discuss whether there have been attempts to silence debate re the GRA.

How is that a discussion? The TRAs raised hell to make it impossible to meet and speak out. Why not discuss whether the sun emits electronic waves? Duh.

Belcher was basically just making up stuff as Belcher went along

The TRA movement is basically making up stuff as you go along. Obviously they have broad aims (as referenced by We're Still Here), but one week it's transwoman, then it's trans woman, then it's women are cis, then women are natal, then they're "other" women. Etc etc etc.

Janice certainly had everything at her fingertips and used the time wisely. Belcher made a big mistake in targeting Janice. She is a popular journalist and fellow journalists are not going to take it lying down.

Most people are going to hear the claim that transwomen have been around all through history and think 'wtf? no they haven't!' Which makes it of limited use as an argument.

Didn't you see Politics Live with Kathleen Stock, where a ridiculous clone of John Bercow cited trans going back to Roman and Ancient Egypt.

Dr Stock (sorry, she may be a Professor too) said " You're talking about Eunuchs."

Placemats That point about medical intervention in children vs adults is really stark when you put it like that.

Belcher was basically just making up stuff as Belcher went along

I think that for some TRAs who have had the uncritical ears of media, politicians etc whilst spending so much time in an unquestioning trans community these 'arguments' pour out.

What seems clear from both here, Twitter and MSM is how few TRAs even listen to the points that are being put to them when discussing the impact on others.

If sanity ever returns, I would hope to see Janice Turner get a handful of prizes for her involvement in this issue.

Belcher was basically just making up stuff as Belcher went along.
Janice, on the other hand, had all her ducks in a row.

I can well believe Belcher believes lesbians were not considered to be women in the 70s because Belcher is a sexist ninny who holds to the view that ‘woman’ boils down to reductive, regressive stereotypes about femininity, skirts, pink, sparkles, make-up, man-pleasing and knowing your place. Seeing as lots of lesbians actively eschew that shit, it is entirely unsurprising that Belcher would choose to ‘other’ lesbians in this way. Yet again displaying a very male take on womanhood.