The downsides of being a man

I'm sorry if reading more than four sentences per paragraph is an effort for you. Maybe you should stick to twitter. Still, I'll try:

American and European politics are becoming increasingly unstable to a shift in economic power from the west to east. Everyone wants to hang their ideological hat off his victory but as always people just want to be richer, or least as rich as the previous generation.Trump promised the population of America economic improvement. That's why he was narrowly elected over Hillary. 'I'm with Her' does not sell that promise; economically she promised more of the same. Bye bye White House. It had little to nothing do with gender.

But if your logic is sound then by comparison British men have been emasculated; there's another women in No. 10. The 'calm down dear' days of Dave are rapidly fading; now biological men from the UK are trying to run around in womens' showers, because they think they are women. Clearly it's all Theresa May's fault.

I suspect you'll agree that's bullshit.

In short, apart from unadulterated billionaire opportunists, Trump does not in reality represent the average anything unless you're trying to hang a very weak argument off him. For example:

The idea that a 72 year old man, POTUS or not, represents the 30 year old male who for a significant part of their adult life has been exposed to the concept, if not the exact term, of 'toxic masculinity' and the increasing social promotion of gender fluidity.

One problem IMO is that until we can dismantle toxic masculinity across the entire world there is necessarily a 'fight fire with fire' situation.

Military force is likely all that defends our way of life from the many nutters/despots out there who are currently deterred by our bigger firepower - ISIS, Kim Yong, etc.

Didnr Churchill with something like "the average person sleeps soundly because of the rough men ready to commit violence on their behalf."

@Snowfluke
So nothing has dramatically changed socially for the average man and woman in Western nations over the last hundred years because Trump has been the POTUS for a little over 18 months. Oh, how things would have been different if America had voted for Hillary. It would have been a great feminist leap forward, just like Margaret Thatcher was, or Marine Le Pen would be. Because everyone knows it's only male politicians who are typically self-serving bastards who care little for the rest of humanity.

Ahem... any other ridiculous non sequiturs you'd like to throw in my direction?

The downsides of being a man?
Ooh, let me see.
The embarrassment of automatically having a higher salary than your female colleagues.

Risking being reported to HR when you grope the staff.
Not being able to suffer labour pain or periods.
Being annoyed that your wife prioritises your baby and sometimes doesn’t have your dinner ready on time.
Having to consider whether a woman actually consents before you pressure her into sex.
The inconvenience of marital rape now being illegal, so you have to go to the bother of an affair to get your sexual demands met.
The physical effort of having to punch people who disagree with you.
You mean those sort of downsides, OP?!

If men can liberate themselves from slavery then they can liberate themselves from the patriarchy, strict gender norms and the MRAs.

amandadecabernet
'Dismantle existing existing toxic power structure ('patriarchy').' Is that over then? I've got so much stuff I could be doing instead, I had no idea.

"- Weakened patriarchy no longer capable of enforcing biological sex roles."

If you're going to a pedant at least read past the first sentence. That aside, you should be so lucky. It's only going to get worse

At the current rate of social progress the best you can hope for is that you don't find yourself in the same shower room as the one of the future Hannah Mouncey's, when they ask if anyone would like to see their.. how do I phrase this... 'integral strap-on'.

I would say the main downside to being a man is that women gatekeep your access to sex and reproduction.

Men as a class could have gone two ways in handling this. Respect women, or don't respect women. They went with don't, and they're sticking to it.

I am with MagicMix. Changing existing power structures, does not make everyone a winner. Men will lose power and they won't like it.

Of course there are downsides to power. It is a burden to carry and some men can't handle it which creates mental health issues and suicides. But men most men don't like to give up power even if it damaging their health.

WonderFluid 'Dismantle existing existing toxic power structure ('patriarchy').' Is that over then? I've got so much stuff I could be doing instead, I had no idea.

Derailing by making feminism all about men.

There is a very long existing reading list for fellas who want to know how to support feminism.

HEAVE a great sigh....

If nothing else maybe it will divert some men from going "Actually I'm a woman". Fighting transgender ideology through the back door, as it were....

What we need is a general dismantling of the 'strong man' myth, I think, and men seem to be struggling with doing that on their own. Therefore, I'm willing to have a great sigh and assist. It'll be worth it if it helps my DSs to grow up as not-twats.

If we say things like that then surely we perpetuate the idea that men need to just stfu about their emotions - which is a fundamental tenet of toxic masculinity and patriarchy isn't it? How do you get that from anything I've said here?

• Dismantle existing existing toxic power structure ('patriarchy').
• Have no clue what to replace it with.
• Men with severe psychiatric disorders come out of the woodwork.
• Weakened patriarchy no longer capable of enforcing biological sex roles.
• Cue 6' 2" 220 lb trans player thundering across a womens' rugby pitch.
• Shouts 'I'M A WOMAAAAAAN!' whilst crushing the ball with one hand.
• RadFems blame the Patriarchy.

The downside to being a man, a patriarchal man, OP, is that they generally have as much time for this nonsense as RadFems. But they've been socially castrated for exhibiting the kind of toxic masculinity which would have prevented the above scenario from happening in the first place.

Now they just have to sit and watch society go bat shit crazy whilst continuing to get the blame for it.

My slightly cross tone isn't aimed at you op, it's more that I can't help hearing an undertone of nice girl feminism and whataboutery, which may not be coming from you.
And if I had a penny for every time I've heard/read a discussion about how feminism can include men I'd be rich, but what I tend to hear from men is 'I will call myself a fucking feminist if I want to.'

Maybe there is no male equivalent, maybe we're all in this. If you want to own it, like put your name on it, well that's different.
Imagine if women were constantly asking 'what's the female version of patriarchy?' Or capitalism.
Feminism opposes patriarchy. There isn't a male or female version, we can all fight oppression, but in this case women have a perspective that men don't and I think that should be acknowledged and respected. Only a dick insists on being 'included' where he is not invited.

BloodyDraculcasonthis that's a passive view of a violent system.

I'm not sure why it matters. Can they not come up with their own word? Or how about ally? Or supporter? If they want to amplify the message of feminism that's their prerogative. I think this kind of debate or whatever is slightly derailing. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be here asking this question, but in my experience men having this discussion are centering themselves in a 'whyyyyy can't I say it??' way. Feminism is often interesting to men until they are 'allowed in' and then once they see what they need to risk/change they get bored.

Patriarchy in my mind, is like a widespread virus that infects everyone.
Men suffer from it: they get a runny nose and a cough. But they also get a boosted libido.
women suffer from it:
They get runny nose, cough, headaches, bloodloss, lung failure and coma. They get no positives.

If we cured the virus, we'd all feel better but most men don't want to lose their boosted libido and some don't even realise it's the illness giving them that boost.

That's my dimwitted analogy anyway.