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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Think I've lost a friendship because of this

53 replies

ShimmyShimmyYa · 19/10/2018 16:49

Feeling very fragile- friend verbally lashed out at me while we were debating the trans issue; or misogyny issue, as i see it!
I brought it up- more fool me- felt certain he'd be on board
He is someone who is not politically or culturally particularly savvy, but he's not stupid and has 100% integrity so gives a very genuine response to things- not affected by political fashions, what's cool etc.
And he's a kind person- we both are!- and that's what makes it so horrible.
to be fair he understood the issues around self ID pretty swiftly but could not understand why I believe that a post op trans female has no place in a female space; possibly some on here will agree with him.
He could not get his head around the fact that the presence of a post op transwoman could in any way impinge "enough" on born females: "it's not like they can rape you"
I tried to explain that it's not just about rape- it's about peace of mind- it's about an adolescent girl not feeling extremely uncomfortable/frightened by the very manly looking person in the changing room; it's about not trying to suss out if they have a dick or not; it's about me with my menopausal, southerly facing tits not wanting to get undressed in front of a born man. I don't know why that isn't enough and I don't know how else to articulate it. My argument was obviously not compelling as my friend still felt that the TWs needs far outweighed those of the "slight discomfort" that the adolescent girl would feel- suck it up, essentially!
i'm speechless but he's not in a minority, is he?!
he's just delivered an apology but it includes the fact that he's upset that someone like me could be so lacking in empathy and make unsubstatiated attacks on transwomen; it also suggests that I consider how my son would feel if it transpired that he was transsexual. So, bit of a shitty apology- he also included a link to a piece by 3 very "open-minded" liberal feminists who believe in inclusivity cos they're nice, see?! i havent read it it- my nerves can't take it and i guarantee that they are under the age of 30 and don't have daughters.
OK I've vented! i know this isn't really the place for it and don't want to clog up the forum but I'm not putting this on AIBU because I'm most definitely not being unreasonable.
Just feel shitty that my first sticking head above parapet went so badly!

OP posts:
amandadecabernet · 19/10/2018 16:59

I'm sorry to hear that. Being kind to me would mean he might try to see it from your point of view or at the very least respect your boundaries. I mean I don't have to understand everything about everyone's pov, but I do respect that our lived experience is different, as I suspect you do.

pennydrew · 19/10/2018 16:56

This is not a friend. He has no stake in this whatsoever, and yet he didn’t listen or respect your views or the needs of women at all. Personally I’m always really grateful when an issue outs a friend as a misogynist, then I know they’re not someone I want to be near.

Oh and he is a minority. I have not spoken to one man who responded this way to me. Not my husband, not his friends, not my other male friends of various races, nor my gay male friends.

If you care to respond to his gaslighting bullshit, you might like to remind him
1 you’re not attacking anyone, you’re defending your own rights existing in law and your personal boundaries which should be respected
and 2 you don’t appreciate his misogynistic gaslighting or the attempt at emotional manipulation by dragging your child into it

Or just: fuck off

TimeLady · 19/10/2018 16:55

He's viewing it from a male perspective, so probably genuinely doesn't understand. You're a woman withholding consent for males in female spaces and he's a man insisting you're wrong to do so...so what does that make him?

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