Debbie Hayton on world at 1 radio 4 today

Sadly I am also cynical, but it does no harm to pose the question "And which biological women have you invited to this event?" each time. It underlines the need and shows them up as exclusionary, especially if you can get it into the actual interview at some point.

I agree with this in principle, but with the bias at the BBC, it is entirely likely that they would say they had asked a representative of the GC side to contribute, but they had declined. And then just go ahead with Paris Lees and the non-binary person.

Probably. I think it was Robin Ince who made a stand and refused to appear on panel shows without at least one women. It resulted with him not appearing on panel shows.

At least here we can clearly see and hear only males speaking, and no women are included.

I rather cynically suspect that would happen too. I'd also be astonished to see any trans person other than Miranda Yardley even try it.

The BBC seem to have firmly committed to the idea that this is an issue for males to decide among themselves, with the opinions of us mere females being irrelevant to the matter at hand.

(I very much hope that the rest of the British media notice this and hammer them relentlessly on it.)

It's entirely possible to imagine a scenario where a GC trans person suggests a GC woman to appear as well, or even refuses to take part unless a natal woman is included.

I agree with this in principle, but with the bias at the BBC, it is entirely likely that they would say they had asked a representative of the GC side to contribute, but they had declined. And then just go ahead with Paris Lees and the non-binary person.

It's a way of lifting up voices that aren't being heard: it's good allyship.

Good points silentcrow

Debbie I also have really appreciated everything you've done this week. I can't believe how badly some people in the trans community (who are meant to be supporting you!) are treating you.

I was also very grateful when you told Kirsty on Newsnight about women's boundaries and when asked who should decide where those boundaries are, you said "it has to be women".

Agreed that it's not Debbie's fault that there were no females on the show - the blame for that lies entirely with the BBC

In principle, yes, but there is something that can be done, and there's precedent for it. I follow the book world quite closely, in particular US-based SFF (sci-fi & fantasy) and UK kidlit. In recent years there's been a push to make convention panels more balanced, and there has even been a pledge from authors to consider invitations carefully - could there be a better fit, or a better balance? These authors have started to refuse to be on panels which are all-male, for example, or all-white when a person of colour could fit the bill (and other permutations of diversity). Some male authors even refuse to go on the panel theselves; lots of authors suggest other authors who could be invited instead. It's a way of lifting up voices that aren't being heard: it's good allyship.

It's entirely possible to imagine a scenario where a GC trans person suggests a GC woman to appear as well, or even refuses to take part unless a natal woman is included. That would break the monopoly of men talking about women's rights. To borrow a phrase from disability activism: nothing about us without us.

I have just posted a transcript of my essay on my blog: debbiehayton.wordpress.com/2018/10/20/trust-and-confidence-must-be-restored/

Debbie from another teacher. Much respect.

I'd also note that many here vehemently disagreed with Debbie on an earlier thread, and that disagreement has not been resolved, and yet none of us have or would try to get Debbie sacked because who does that?

Yes, as one of those who disagreed with Debbie on another thread ( we agree on much more than we disagree ) it never occurred to me to retaliate in any way! The idea of it is absurd and obviously Debbie doesn’t deserve that.

I'd also note that many here vehemently disagreed with Debbie on an earlier thread, and that disagreement has not been resolved, and yet none of us have or would try to get Debbie sacked because who does that?

Precisely.

•AngryAttackKittens•
Coalition of the Non Personality Disordered.

I'd also note that many here vehemently disagreed with Debbie on an earlier thread, and that disagreement has not been resolved, and yet none of us have or would try to get Debbie sacked because who does that?

Maybe we could call the sometimes odd collection of people who've come together to push back against TRA overreach the Coalition of the Non Personality Disordered.

Thank you for your contributions this week Debbie, you’ve been fantastic on every forum.

My public campaigning line is that my livelihood is under threat but it is not under threat from gender critical women.

Worst I get from gender critical women is to be politically misgendered (or politically correctly sexed depending on your point of view). Honestly, I can't get worked up over flipping pronouns. Not when the other side is trying to get me sacked and trash my reputation.

Thank you Debbie. I'm so sorry for the treatment which you've received. I found what you said really informative and I am very grateful.

Agreed that it's not Debbie's fault that there were no females on the show - the blame for that lies entirely with the BBC.

Also annoyed but unsurprised to hear that TRAs are trying to get Debbie sacked. What did they report you for? If it was for publicly acknowledging that sex exists then that's a pretty bloody silly thing to report a science teacher for.

"Your crime?"
"Knowing what the Y chromosome does"

Will catch up on both of those in the morning.
Thank you for showing the country that this is not women being transphobic and that we can discuss these matters calmly and rationally, without the need for smoke bombs.

Debbie, I hope you read this. Thank you so much for being calm, measured and intelligent in these debates.

You must be bloody knackered with all the media you’re doing, and I just want to say that it’s appreciated.

You are doing a great job for women and transwomen. Stay safe and well.

Thank you, Debbie

Debbie or 🍷or your Friday night tipple of choice from me. You have been amazing this week. Shining a light, speaking sense, being calm and rational and dignified. So sorry you're being punished for it and hope you have lots of rl support.

lbc?