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Original poster

OBJECT Dec activist meeting, central London

57 replies

amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 09:57

Hi all. I'm helping to set up an OBJECT activist group. We'll be meeting in central London in early December. If you'd like to come along pm me.

OBJECT currently focuses on 5 Key Issues relating to the oppression and objectification of women:

Pornography

Prostitution

Sex Encounter Venues

Surrogacy

'Transgender'

www.objectnow.org/
www.facebook.com/ObjectUpdate/

OP posts:
SophoclesTheFox · 19/10/2018 20:37

placemarking- had a long day and incapable of doing anything about this right now, but definitely interested.

FFSFFSFFS · 19/10/2018 20:36

Sorry to go a bit off piste and bring it back to the surrogacy thing - but you seem to have good stuff!

How would you articulate the differentiation between surrogacy and other work that people do that carries personal risk and discomfort but is paid for?

I suppose the obvious example is soldiers. But what about say people (by which I mean almost all men) who do say mining. I know that modern mining is a world away from the old days - so it might not be a great example - but you get what I mean I hope - a job that involves personal risk and discomfort and therefore people are paid for it.

Is there some sort of argument that the reason that surrogacy should not be paid for because women's work that involves risk/effort should always be done for free?

I'm not being goady by the way. I think commercial surrogacy is wrong. I'm just trying to get my intellectual knots untied.

Ignore if this is too annoying to respond to!

arranfan · 19/10/2018 20:23

Just to say that I tried subscribing to OBJECT using the form and no confirmation has come through (I've checked Spam).

I'll check again tomorrow.

Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 22:26

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed pleasure. :)

OP posts:
Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 22:26

stillathing yes and another case of the law and science not being able to catch up with commerce. And as with prostitution there is likely to be a two-tier system where poor women do not have the same legal protection.

OP posts:
SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 18/10/2018 21:52

Thank you, will do!

stillathing · 18/10/2018 21:48

surrogacy is an interesting one! woke me of a few years ago thought it was OUTRAGEOUS that women here were not paid properly for it because it looked like hard work yeah? i could not see that the law preventing it was actually there to protect women and prevent surrogacy becoming a market driven product. i would say i was speaking from a position of privilege back then - and I guess i was as despite having endured most of the shit things men do to women uninvited, i've never been coerced or forced to sell my body or needed to do so for food or rent.

but i think it is more than that for me. if a woman decides to be a surrogate for her sister or for her gay friends that's a very altruistic and moving thing to do. but what is key here is that the woman is in a relationship with the sister or the gay friends. children are born of relationships, we shouldn't be able to purchase them off a shelf. babies become fully human through their earliest relationships, including the relationship with their mother in utero (a baby kept fed but not interacted with will grow up with extreme physical and mental deficits). the idea of a baby being a product seems to move away from acknowledging the importance of early relationships.

and of course the whole thing is open to terrible exploitation. what do you do if you can't keep up with demand?

Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 21:40

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed if you get in touch via the contact form I'm sure someone can tell you.

OP posts:
SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 18/10/2018 21:29

Are there any plans to set up groups outside London?

DialsMavis · 18/10/2018 20:56

I would like to get involved with this

FFSFFSFFS · 18/10/2018 20:46

I fail to see how this is any different from selling a kidney, except that men have kidneys.

oh I'd never thought of it like that! Thanks for that thought. Commercial surrogacy makes me deeply uncomfortable but I find it difficult to articulate why.

NewWomensMovement · 18/10/2018 20:43

"As of 2018, OBJECT is delighted to welcome Dr Sheila Jeffreys and Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans to its management board. We are also pleased to have recently entered into a partnership with feminist conference organiser Filia."

Wow! Amazing!!!

Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 20:37

Yes, how hard it is - and mean and nasty, bad woman etc - to get an abortion and how sublime to be a rent-a-womb surrogate, just full to the brim with the milk of human kindness with little squirrels and robins alighting on you and plaiting your hair like Snow White.
These things are not a choicy choice, there is a system of oppression behind our 'choices'. Or that is what I believe anyway.
Wish you were here Materialist! Keep fighting the good fight. :)

OP posts:
Materialist · 18/10/2018 20:30

This reply has been deleted

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Materialist · 18/10/2018 20:21

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Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 20:19

And re kidneys, it's interesting how different it is to donate eggs vs donating sperm. But I digress!

Do carry on getting in touch if you'd like to attend the Dec activism meeting. :)

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Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 20:17

Materialist and yet, despite the fact that there is a very real problem with rising maternal mortality in woc the industry there is very focussed on the correct language, eg pregnant people, chestfeeding etc. So money well spent!

OP posts:
Materialist · 18/10/2018 20:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MistressFunbox · 18/10/2018 20:01

I view (fully) altruistic surrogacy as akin to donating a kidney to a loved one. Acceptable in certain circumstances if risks properly understood but extensive counselling and care required.

Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 19:45

AgnesNaismith yes, I think a lot of us think that way, that we'd be doing someone a lovely favour, but that's because we have options. It's like saying that prostitutes are glamorous escorts who choose to do that work out of all the other things they could do to earn a living, when that is only what it's like for a very small minority of those women.

Obvs there's no feminist hive mind on this :) but this is one of the five key issues, in keeping with the mission statement: OBJECT campaigns against the sexual objectification of women and the oppression of women as a sex class.

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Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 19:36

muse.jhu.edu/article/530611

OP posts:
Chocolala · 18/10/2018 19:36

I thought you weren’t allowed to pay In The Uk

AgnesNaismith · 18/10/2018 19:35

I guess I’m just thinking if my best friend/sister needed someone to do that for them I would do it......perhaps not the same thing? Is it only if there is money involved it is wrong?

Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 19:35

www.eggsploitation.com/testimony-swm.htm

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Original poster
amandadecabernet · 18/10/2018 19:33

Agnes can you see the parallels with prostitution? And how it is problematic that poor women who have no other reasonable options are being paid to do it?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodification_of_the_womb

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