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Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)

111 replies

R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 09:57

In the Guardian today:
(extract)
"Prof Stephen Whittle, the founder of trans rights group Press for Change, warned that many trans people would “become depressed and dejected” if reform was delayed. He said: “I am sure there will be a flurry of attempts and suicides. But in the end we will pull ourselves together and continue the campaigning. We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected.”

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/17/transgender-law-reform-has-overlooked-womens-rights-say-mps

Last week Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch) ascribed causative link between suicide and suicide ideation to newspaper coverage with specific mention of the Times journalist Janice Turner:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393577-Janice-Turner-accused-of-causing-trans-suicides

2013 Article describing formation of Press For Change and background to prominant trans-rights campaigners.
Christine Burns describes how Press For Change secured legislation:
(extract)
"Much of their campaigning remained on the quiet. The passage of the 2004 law to give trans people legal status was "remarkable," says Burns, because "the government was able to pass an entire act in parliament without anyone throwing a fit in the press"

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Helen Belcher comment:
"In her Pressing Matters books, Christine Burns writes eloquently about all the work that a small group of trans campaigners did to achieve a legislative landmark. The Gender Recognition Act took at least 10 years of work as well as a series of court cases. It also took its toll. Most of the Press for Change team stepped back from front-line campaigning shortly after the Act was passed.

It’s been left to a new generation of campaigners to pick up the slack. I was one of a small number who formed the charity Trans Media Watch back in 2009, with the aim of improving the representation of trans and intersex people across the British media. What we found was largely ignorance. Senior executives would ask questions without any idea of their insensitivity. It took some thick skins to educate rather than retaliate."
challengingjourneys.wordpress.com/2018/10/01/free-speech-or-life-and-death/

Samaritans: www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide/suicide-reporting-10-things-remember

Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
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TimeLady · 18/10/2018 12:49

Oh, my, Rowan, that document on the 2004 GRA discussions is an eye-opener.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 18/10/2018 11:40

This is a disastrous political mice. All the tories have to do is a bit of dog whistle 'loony left want more Karen Whites', and labour lose votes from many women, many religious communities and people with very traditional views of gender roles.

Yes, this was highlighted as the potential issue on FWR many months ago.

The Conservative MPs who have challenged the issue have also been to the right of the Conservative and mostly 'Brexiteers'.

It is though worth stressing the roles that Maria Miller and Penny Mordant have played:
interview with Janice Turner in 2017:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2993425-Maria-Miller-interviewed-by-Janice-Turner-full-text

The focus must be on those individuals, organisations and charities which have lobbied all political parties, public services and influential media outlets so successfuly.

Its a cross party issue.

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VickyEadie · 18/10/2018 11:35

For the first time in my life, I'm relieved that Labour currently haven't got a chance of getting elected. I hate even thinking it, but it's true.

Yep.

Pamspeople · 18/10/2018 11:34

Mice????

Move!

Pamspeople · 18/10/2018 11:33

For the first time in my life, I'm relieved that Labour currently haven't got a chance of getting elected.

I hate even thinking it, but it's true.

This is a disastrous political mice. All the tories have to do is a bit of dog whistle 'loony left want more Karen Whites', and labour lose votes from many women, many religious communities and people with very traditional views of gender roles.

Absolute idiots.

Original poster
R0wantrees · 18/10/2018 10:18

Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) and very influential TRA on this thread yesterday said:

In the end we will pull ourselves together and continue the campaigning – as we have always done. We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected. As I tell the community “we have always lost more battles than we have won, but we only ever need to win the big one”.

I hope that clarifies matters.

Please read this important document detailing the key issues in the 2004 debate:
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1049289194370002945.html

Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
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VickyEadie · 18/10/2018 10:16

It's not only not about safeguarding - we've seen recently that merely mentioning it to TRAs has them accusing GC women of being emotive and manipulative.

The truth - the shocking truth - is not only that none of them cares a jot about safeguarding, but that that amongst their number are individuals who want to dismantle it entirely.

Mamaryllis · 18/10/2018 02:03

And just a reminder - using the code transgender20 will still get you 20% off the book. Grin

Original poster
R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 21:53

'Professor Michele Moore is an expert in Inclusive Education and Disability Studies. She leads human rights projects across the world to support children, their families and those who work with them. She is the Co-Editor of the ground-breaking book Transgender Children and Young People, Born in Your Own Body from Cambridge Scholars. Michele will be discussing ideas from the book – the implications of self-declaration of gender for children and young people, including disabled children'

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Original poster
R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 21:51

This from someone who has very assertively campaigned over many years on behalf of a supposedly vulnerable community?

Stephen Whittle's campaigning focus has been the law, to change it along with policies and society.
Stephen Whittle has been very successful.

Its never been about safeguarding. He has demonstrated that he clearly doesn't understand what this is or how it works.

Its all about rights. His and those he works with.

Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
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TimeLady · 17/10/2018 20:18

I'd like to thank Stephen for providing me with my final quote for Q22 in the GRA consultation, submitted today. In effect:

If it's just a small admin matter as we've been assured, then why would a delay result in suicides - clearly someone's lying... and it's not the women's groups.

Seemed a good point to end on.

gendercritter · 17/10/2018 19:52

I agree. In hindsight I should not have said that - but the Samaritan's guidelines never cross my mind.

This from someone who has very assertively campaigned over many years on behalf of a supposedly vulnerable community? Surely you read up on such things until you know them inside out and back to front so you are able to handle the subject extremely sensitively? Confused i mean, that's what I'd do.

Janie143 · 17/10/2018 17:00

The lovely PFC Christine Burns was joining in with the hilarious "women smell like fish" Twitter thread

Knicknackpaddyflak · 17/10/2018 16:55

Whittle loathes women. As we have daily evidence, many transwomen loathe and despise women and see them as deeply inferior. As do MRAs such as Dr (women smell of fish) Harrop. This is a deep, personal bias and it has to be regarded as intrinsic to the whole movement.

Allowing the TRA lobby to guide and lead legislation that affects women is like allowing a group of evangelical vegans to re design the guidance and law for the meat marketing board. That Whittle was permitted to be a special advisor for the White Paper is beyond belief, the whole system has been corrupted since this whole farce began.

Stop the consultation. Do it properly. Take separate and equal advice from both sides. Find (somewhere) a group that hasn't yet been brainwashed, doesn't run around like headless chickens at the word 'trans', isn't afraid to be publicly identified to transactivists because of fear and harm (and deals properly with threatening, vexatious and intimidating behaviour and takes professional account of and advise on what it indicates when it's widespread in a group like this) who still remembers what professional behaviour is, and will draw up properly weighted, balanced equality law. Like real grown ups.

Datun · 17/10/2018 16:04

Mamaryllis

I agree with that analysis.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 17/10/2018 15:48

This is the truth of many TRAs, but its not just Samaritan's media guidance, it is good practice that anyone who has worked with vulnerable people understands (or should understand) very well.
The principles behind this matter a great deal. This is safeguarding and child protection.

Yes, and as an academic who, I presume, works with young people, many of whom will suffer poor mental health, Stephen will have received guidance about to best to provide pastoral care. He should have already known that he what he was saying was completely contrary to accepted practice.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 17/10/2018 15:46

Thank you datun and penny

Ds1 is an absolute joy, but he feels everything!!!

He is much better now, self esteem is much higher Smile

Original poster
R0wantrees · 17/10/2018 15:44

I agree. In hindsight I should not have said that - but the Samaritan's guidelines never cross my mind.

This is Stehen Whittle's comment from the other thread.

This is the truth of many TRAs, but its not just Samaritan's media guidance, it is good practice that anyone who has worked with vulnerable people understands (or should understand) very well.

The principles behind this matter a great deal. This is safeguarding and child protection.

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BettyDuMonde · 17/10/2018 15:36

Mumsnetters aren’t unfairly smearing Whittle when they say that much of Whittle’s influence on law has been leveraged out of the public eye, it’s what Press for Change have actually admitted to themselves.

Here’s Whittle’s colleague at PFC recent book:

Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
Stephen Whittle (Press for Change) irresponsible use of 'likely' suicides follows Helen Belcher's (Trans Media Watch)
Mamaryllis · 17/10/2018 15:36

I assume with Stephen it’s more academic pride and arrogance. He has a jolly high opinion of himself and the idea of leaving such a major impression on the social fabric of a country would be a real drive. History books and whatnot. There seems to be no empathy at all with women, and even his ‘humourous’ asides about his life were designed very carefully to show how absolutely not a woman he is) so I suspect that the destruction of women’s sex segregated rights would be further proof to him of his male identity.
I know that’s all a bit armchair psych. Probably all bollocks.
He’s a very self-satisfied chap. Definitely got that aspect of masculinity nailed.

Datun · 17/10/2018 15:32

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Strewth Rufus. Big hug.

Datun · 17/10/2018 15:31

Whittle's name isn't down as one of the members of the Stonewall trans advisory board. I do wonder who they are - I think there are about 3 who aren't named. Whittle is pretty much certain to be one.

Stephen is busy denying that on the thread about the Guardian article and MPs/the GRA.

Also - has anyone read Whittle's pomo drivel that beats people into submission by throwing so much word salad at them they go into a defensive coma?

Also doing that, and it's getting...zzzzzzz

OldCrone · 17/10/2018 15:31

Steven's motivation for the GRA was so he could marry a woman and adopt her children Both these are open to same sex couples now so why is it still needed legally ?

It's not. It should be repealed.

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 17/10/2018 15:29

In case anyone hasn't seen it, Stephen has 'clarified' his statement here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397010-Guardian-article-on-MPs-concern-with-GRA?watched=1&msgid=81873561#81873561

pennydrew · 17/10/2018 15:27

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer

Oh I so understand what you’re saying. Our DD has difficulty with emotions, displaying them, understanding them, and recognising them. So has a tendency to play everything down. There’s a wonderful young woman on YouTube we found really helpful, Asperger’s Girl. She helped me understand a lot.

I just am gobsmaked at anyone using these awful experiences families have, to emotionally manipulate others and get something pushed through that hasn’t properly been assessed and isn’t in the best interests of anyone, IMO. It’s such a sad and troubling issue, to discuss it so flippantly and so dangerously, it just is so very wrong.