Disabled toilets/all gender washroom

Ds is nearly 9, I couldn’t fit in a normal cubicle with him now - and a lot of the time he is in a wheelchair when out anyway.

Even if I could fit in a normal cubicle with him I wouldn’t because he deserves dignity and squashing into a tiny cublicle in the ladies with his mum isn’t dignified. Less so for a male but I would say the same for any older child/adult.

I don’t think pitting disabilities against each other helps, intact we all need to be fighting together for improved provision for disabled people and to stop the facilities constantly being expected to be shared

Also, what you’re describing is not unusual to see- a carer with an adult in the disabled toilets. People obviously make reasonable allowances, but the primary purpose of those toilets are indeed for physical disabilities.

IMO, it is utterly selfish to say that disabled toilets are only for the physically disabled

No it isn’t. It’s accurate. They are designed for those that cannot physically use other toilets able bodied people can.

I have an autistic child who wet herself into her teens. I can understand why you would want to use the disabled toilets. Personally I can fit in a normal toilet with my child, teenager now, and I do. We go together.

I am not an expert on this so I think you should speak to someone about her wetting herself intentionally. You might consider appropriate daytime incontinence pads or nappies.

Hamster and Luangwa you both have justifiable reasons to use a disabled loo, not all disabilities are visible.
I imagine it would be difficult trying to sort a bag out in a tiny cubicle and when a person has needs that mean they need supervision (even if they're an adult) to stop them from wandering off into danger then you use the appropriate facility, which would be the disabled one.

@pennydrew

Disabled toilets are for physically disabled people. NOBODY ELSE. Not even for 60 seconds. It’s utterly selfish to do it.

Common experiences for me:

1. Arrive at motorway service station with DD, who has complex learning disabilities. I show her into a clean toilet in the ladies. I go find one for myself. When I come out, DD is nowhere in sight. I get on the floor to see if I can see her trainers in the cubicle, I left her in. No!

1. DD goes in a toilet and decides to lock the door, because she is modest. Unfortunately, she may well be able to unlock it - and if the toilet does not have locks that can be opened from the outside with a coin, it can be very difficult to explain how to undo the lock to somebody who does not understand words like left, right, up, down, turn the knob, etc!

1. DD can't cope with certain noises like hand-driers or children screaming with laughter. If that happens in the ladies, she may shut down mentally, lock herself in the toilet and refuse to come out. It can take two of us half an hour to coax her out! This is wearing, when we frequently have to say everything 3 times before she understands us anyway!

1. DD has no depth perception and stairs look like a cliff to her. Going upstairs or downstairs to ladies toilets is for her a terrifying experience!

1. If she says she needs to go, when we are out, she means we have 30 seconds before she soils herself. It is extremely unpleasant to have to take her home, bath her and wash her clothes!

1. Despite wearing incontinence pants, she wets the bed every other night; and wets herself every day. Imo, she can't be bothered to use the toilet anymore and just does it in her pants - but there is a limit to what they can take, - unless I keep on top of it and prompt her to go every two hours. If not, wet clothes, settees, carpets, car seats and anything else she might sit on or next to (like us)

IMO, it is utterly selfish to say that disabled toilets are only for the physically disabled - and expect attractive young women, who look normal, but with the mental age of about 3, to wander about in motorway service stations or other public places on their own! Unless you can tell me, how I or any carer can supervise her while on the toilet ourselves (and no, telling her not to wander off does not work, because she resents adult supervision)?

Sorry SeaFour, I was trying to be flippant and probably didn't get my point across too well.

Merrymouse exactly and very well put. No doubt all ability all gender toilets won't be good enough for some trans people anyway and they will want their own special place to piss.
It's not fair and it's not right for disabled toilets to be for anyone because I don't have a choice to use an alternative place to piss and able bodied people do.

My first point would be that it is confusing - the toilets already are ‘all gendered’, whatever that means - it’s just that looking at the signs they used to be restricted to people with disabilities.

If by ‘all gendered’ they mean that, having already reduced provision by combining disabled facilities and baby changing, they want to include anybody of any gender, it’s now just a large toilet that anyone can use.

SeaFour

Hamster you have a medical need to use a disabled toilet to deal with your bag the fact that you are also trans is irrelevant, your suggestions are ludicrous, disabled is disabled its simple. But for anyone else who has a choice and can access alternative toilets then they should do so.

Hamster00I was responding to Laura and seafets pots

Hamster00 I have an invisible disability, see my other posts on this.

Disabled toilets are always being used as store rooms or baby changing rooms.

As a mother and a wheelchair user myself I don't have a problem with baby changing in the disabled toilets, but it's a fucking great irony that they're too high for wheelchair users to change their babies on.

OP, I have absolutely no idea what your issue is with it being all gender. It's a private, lockable room. Mothers and fathers both take care of children these days.

Florence it can be frustrating sometimes for disabled toilets to also be the baby change facility especially somewhere like soft play or the theatre for obvious reasons but also because most disabled people take much longer to use the toilet and we feel awkward making mums/dads with little ones wait for ages. We don't want to have our right to use a suitable toilet eroded further by it being a space for anyone and everyone to use.

So to give you a clear idea of my situation, I'm paralysed and have one arm that works fully, my bladder doesn't work at all so the only way to empty it is to use a catheter. I choose not to have a permanent indwelling catheter because I don't want one so if it's time for me to empty my bladder this is what is involved:

Find a disabled toilet, sometimes wait for the mop bucket, a months worth of toilet roll and all the cleaning supplies to be removed so that I can get my wheelchair in.

1. Wrestle my backpack off the chair.
2. Nine times out of ten clean the toilet seat.
3. Wash my hands.
4. Transfer to toilet, hoping that you don't fall onto the filthy floor.
5. Clean hands again with antibacterial gel.
6. Lay out catheter, wipes, gloves on wheelchair seat.
7. Wrestle with clothes to get access.
8. Put gloves on - remember I'm doing all of this with only one fully working limb.
9. Open sterile pack with catheter in.

Do you get the idea? I have many disabled friends, a wheelchair using daughter and a son with ms, we all have different issues using the toilet and it takes all of us a long time.
I for one don't see why our disabled facility should be further shared with hairy Mary of squeaky Shane who are able bodied and can use alternative toilet cubicles that are completely inaccessible to us.

Hamster00

I have worked a couple of times at Newcastle-under-Lyme college. It's a brilliant building, a sort of oval shape with 2-3 accessible toilets on each floor, all slightly different depending on different needs including if you need assistance.

The one on the ground floor that is designed for someone who needs more than just a toilet with a hand rail ie it has a hoist and a shower and medical couch is also a designated trans toilet.

I know that is useless information unless you are going to start a course there but I think it is a very neat solution and should be copied in new build buildings.

Actually for accessibility it is fab, there are different lifts and your ID gives you access to different ones, so most students can only use one set, staff have their own lifts and people with disabilities get a pass that allows you to call any lift.

Hamster00

I can’t see anyone thinking you shouldn’t use the disabled toilets, my friend with a bag does and it’s pretty standard from what I understand due to what’s needed.

I can’t believe this is even being debated this way. This thread 🙄.

I have a serious fucking problem with the way this country treats disabled people as it is, fuck knows how they’re supposed to get around let alone use facilities that are often completely inadequate ( anyone remember the paralympian on a virgin train who couldn’t actually get to the disabled loo because the aisle was too narrow??!! ). But this is next level insult. First they have to share a baby change station, no I do not think that’s ok, and now it’s just anyone who feels uncomfortable in Male or female toilets because of their ‘gender identity’ 😐 Not okay.

Disabled toilets are for physically disabled people. NOBODY ELSE. Not even for 60 seconds. It’s utterly selfish to do it.

In this instance, OP I think you should ask them to clarify all the different signs and why they think it’s appropriate to have a single space for 3 different needs. A baby change station can be fitted into both Male and female toilets. The disabled should be separate and just for actually disabled people. The end.

Hamster your needs are fully within the description of the Equality Act coverage of disability. You certainly count as having a physical (medical) disability for the purposes of access.

^^ damn editing

Bottom should read

GulagsMyArse
selfish doesn't even cover it and yes I have had many go at able bodied waltzing out of disabled loos.

Not all disabilities can be seen.

As an aside, I read a lot of Prof Clara Greed's work on public toilet provision for women whilst at university - some may be interested.

people.uwe.ac.uk/Person/ClaraGreed

Can I throw a small spanner into this set of plumbing...

Being transsexual, but also being "disabled" as I have a bag, which toilet am I supposed to use?

1. I won't use the ladies because, well, I'm not a woman.
2. I won't use the mens because I've actually been assaulted in a men's loo before and am scared of physical violence again.
3. If I need to "deal with" my bag, I need space.

I'm not registered disabled, I'm not disabled "enough" to see myself needing to be covered under the protected category but I NEED to use a disabled loo.

Are we suggesting now that we create ANOTHER set of toilets for "Disabled Trans"? I mean that's now

Mens
Womens
Trans / Gender neutral
Disabled
Disabled Trans / Gender neutral

I know I'm being flippant but there's clearly an issue - even at the most basic level of planning / capacity.

GulagsMyArse
selfish doesn't even cover it and yes I have had many go at able bodied waltzing out of disabled loos.

As an aside, I read a lot of Prof Clara Greed's work on public toilet provision for women whilst at university - some may be interested.

people.uwe.ac.uk/Person/ClaraGreed
Not all disabilities can be seen.

Disabled toilets are generally companies lazy place to put anything else that is needed. I think in most cases they just see it as a box ticking exercise anyway so don’t see the massive issues that can be caused by lumping everything else in there for those who really NEED it.

Baby changing should be available either in a separate room or as a pull down table in the ladies and gents.

Disabled toilets should all be changing places type (ha well I can dream) and only used by people who have disabilities which mean they can’t access the other toilets.

For most disabled people they have one toilet they can access so people using it simply for convenience over using the ‘normal’ toilets can really cause issues especially for those with bowel or bladder problems

I see the 'If my baby's asleep why should I fold my buggy and let a wheelchair user have the wheelchair spot?' brigade are here.

Other people's rights and spaces cannot be appropriated and repurposed, it takes away what was provided in the first place because it was badly needed. The only answer is additional spaces. Going to be expensive and inconvenient initially, but I was part of the first wave nearly 20 years ago, going out to wave the DDA under people's noses and say no, moaning isn't going to get you out of this, you do have to provide ramps, a properly converted toilet, lifts etc etc. Grants and funds were available for small providers, it was enforced and it happened relatively quickly. Gender neutral toilets are going to be much less expensive to produce as smaller spaces and no need for specialist fittings.

I am physically disabled, and I only use disabled facilities on the days I physically can't access the normal loos. Unless the need is physical you have no business using specialist provision for physical need. Any more than you have any business finding 101 selfish reasons why you're choosing to block a space that is the one and only way a wheelchair user can travel.

Seafour I'm with you. I have visible and invisible disabilities. Its usually pretty obvious. They look shocked and avoid eye contact when come out and see me waiting.

Disabled loos must be provided for those who are disabled. It seriously affects disabled peoples chance to participate in life, if they are made multi use.

Sorry Tripping, I though you were saying that Karen White should use the disabled facilities. I misunderstood, my apologies.

Waterlego that can't be a serious question? Of course I'm not. I've never came across communal disabled facilities, only single use.