Butterfly - anyone watching

I want to know where all the trans kids where when I was at school?

I remember a hell of a lot of tomboys (I was one) and a few feminine guys. All of these would be convinced they were trans today if they have access to the internet and all the ridiculous propaganda and 'find your glitter family!' manipulative bullshit. Also we need to remember, Mermaids are going into schools these days to peddle their crap. I do wonder how many 'transkids' come out after one of these groups went into their school to tell them that if they are not a walking stereotype they are trans.

Not great viewing figures. 2.8 million for Butterfly, against 4.6 million for The Cry on BBC 1.

Not good at all. Vanity Fair managed 3.1m for its first episode, even against The Bodyguard and that was a big disappointment.

Radio Times have only interviewed sympathetic voices. Very disappointing

Not great viewing figures. 2.8 million for Butterfly, against 4.6 million for The Cry on BBC 1.

I'd imagine ITV would be pretty disappointed with that as they've been flogging it so relentlessly. For context, The Bodyguard got 14.3 million in the same slot.

I have just watched it on catch up and thought it really well depicted..

Yes it is done in a stereotypical way, but to me gives a good idea of what a family might go through in this situation. Before this, I had no idea, but reading posts on here where most people seem to find the programme unrelateable, then reading tweets made by others who can relate to, and have gone through this, I’m looking forward to next week’s episode.

Just been declared a “must watch” and given rave, positive comments on 5 Live. Such a stunning and brave drama...

I didn't get why they kept going on about puberty either. Was weird. He likes what he likes it's no big deal the problem was the parents

Even the title 'Butterfly' is offensive to me. It is suggesting that a 12 year old boy is not beautiful in himself. He is an ugly chrysallis from which the butterfly emerges.

OK the dance thing doesn't ring true at all. My DC is at a primary school where kids are far too entrenched in gender stereotypes for my liking but they ALL do all the dance crazes non stop - floss, orange justice, etc.

I agree with you - ova and deepwater.

As a PP mentioned, I thought Billy Elliott had challenged these sex role stereotypes decades ago.

Seems we are to be wheeled backwards yet again into "no son of mine will be a nancy-boy who likes dance" - (better be a girl then, mate.) It's a shocking regression.

Radio 5 discussing this this afternoon. Asking for views on twitter

agree Giles it looked much more like a primary school dance which, in my experience, boys of any age would be happily accepted in joining in and not ridiculed by either the boys or girls.

I grew up in a very conservative small town and took up ballet dancing as a kid in the early 80s. We had one boy in the group (the other 2 groups were all girls). It was really cool, because he would take on e.g. the prince role, when we had our annual 'year end performances' in the town hall, in front of hundreds of people.

I never heard anyone suggest that this boy dancing ballet with us was out of the ordinary. Never. What is happening?

I didn't watch this but it seems like there is a suggestion in it that boys are automatically ridiculed for liking dance and it's indicative of being a girl or a girl thing.

My teen relative is an accomplished dancer (has done all the classes/grades) he often performs on stage and is hoping to make it a career. He isn't gay, has a girlfriend, friends of both sexes. He doesn't live in some super progressive part of the country and goes to an average comp. His parent's aren't super woke types, just average people that are proud how hard their son works at something he loves. He hasn't ever experienced, as far as I know, negative reactions for being into dance.

Obviously individual experiences differ from one another but it seems unhelpful to push a narrative that boys automatically become ostracised for stuff like that because I'm not sure how true it is overall.

I remember it was a theme in Billy Elliot also but that was some years ago now and I do think largely we have moved on from that especially with dance being popularised for both sexes in a slew of reality tv shows and competitions.

Oh and it was really strabge how they talked bout him whilst around him. They talked at him and they argued in front of him. But no one actually talked to him

And that mother just sat there after he was slapped. The sister was the only one who got off their arse to see if he was ok.

I also can't believe a therapist would be talking about blockers as blockers. X is it's cancer drugs for starters.

When there is such an obvious parental divide. Of course a kid stuck in the middle would be traumatised and expressing that in a sorts of ways. They didn't even mention side effects

I think this is an own goal for mermaids. Most normal parents would not think their child was trans from that heap of shite. More that he had been rushed down that road without exploring all the other issues in that child's life. #PeakTrans

Any Times readers, it’s reviewed in TV section, pls leave a comment if you can.

I agree Giles it looked much more like a primary school dance which, in my experience, boys of any age would be happily accepted in joining in and not ridiculed by either the boys or girls.

The way the sister went from he liked to dance to he's my sister was very wtf. Having watched the YouTube Lisa muggeridge clip. It's grooming in plain sight.

I'll have to ask dd if the girls are dancing at school somehow I never ever witnessed that at school

The only non-homophobic character was the grandfather - and he was portrayed as a dinosaur fuddy-duddy. Shocking.

Well, the poor little sod won't be having any kids, R0wantrees, and that's a fact.

The sequence where the little boy dressed up and was admiring himself in the mirror was very creepy and sexualised and reminscent of that adult acronym we're not supposed to type. No joy or free expression of childhood in that sequence at all. Just an adult fantasy. I thought it was vile.

vickyjgo

From reading a lot of blogs/journals where transwomen talk about doing "girl" things it always struck me as a "chicken and an egg" situation.

Did they like/do "girl" things and absorb the culture that they therefore must be a girl/they feel like a girl.

Or

Did they feel like a girl (or not a boy) and thus do the "girl" things because stereotyping tells them this is what girls actually do.

I know a lot of people have expressed worry about the stereotypes in the program - I do wonder if much of this is a need to be identified by family and society as a girl and to be able to play with and associate with girls and a natural feeling that people are seeing you as you feel. It would seam natural that as a girl Maxine would want to associated at playschool and school with the girls and would therefore want to be doing the things the girls are generally doing. Is this a part of the motivation for any girl who just wants to be a "part of the gang"? I think this relates to adult trans people as well you know who you are inside but to get society to acknowledge that you do have to confirm to some of the stereotypes.

Wtaf was that.

All they needed to do was leave him the hell alone . Boy or girl. Football or dance. Why can't any if them just do what they want as who they are.

All stereo types. No one listening to him or getting him help to deal with the separation.

How any one can watch and not see its all just bollocks I don't know...