Gov.uk statement about the GRA consultation

Oops, sorry, wrong thread.

AJPTaylor - great name!

Yes, it looks fine to me too. People can socialise with whomever they want.

Anyone know a jorno? Would be worth flagging this lie as Gov already getting kicking over lying about investment in education so press might be interested in more official lies.

This seems like the same strange doublethink they've said all along, that it won't make any difference to women, but this time it looks like they could be starting to try and backtrack. Good. The fact that at the same time they're telling us this is what they've always said is scary though.

This 1984 aspect of the whole thing really freaks me out. So now they're going to backtrack (letting down the trans minority that they led to expect so much), but say they haven't changed their position? I've just be re-reading 1984 by George Orwell. The way those in power have behaved over this issue has really made me shudder.

And to accuse journalists of dishonesty...

I can't decide if this is arse covering in that they intend to kick self-ID into the long grass or arse covering in preparation for it, ie, do shut up you silly witches we've already promised that we'll leave the Equality Act alone (and we're hoping you won't notice that that won't matter).

she’s an idiot with no critical thinking skills and poor comprehension

That bears repeating, actually: she’s an idiot with no critical thinking skills and poor comprehension.

Transwomen are not women.

I can't decide whether they're stupid or if they think we are.

Both.

I remember commenting at the time that the only reference I could find to Penny Mordaunt saying that 'transwomen are women' at the start of the consultation was in Pink News. So I'm not inclined to take that as a given without another source.

Penny Mordaunt is also a massive fan of homeopathy. There’s two options here: either she’s an idiot with no critical thinking skills and poor comprehension, or... or she knows perfectly well that homeopathy is magical thinking bullshit which performs no better than placebos in trials and supports it for some other unspecified reason...

Interesting - but as PP have said, if you can legally change your sex, then it negates sex as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act.

The whole GRA consultation document (note to self, must fill it in this week, although repeated fan shit hittage gives me more to put against any changes which I wouldn’t have had if I'd done it in July) read to me like it was already decided, but it was after how best to implement the changes.

The problem is that the consultation wasn't designed to inform policy. It was designed to support a policy decision. Whoops. (Paraphrased from starkstaring's comment on a previous thread)

I think they may have got the message?

Running scared.

That said, they will offer a sop to the TRA's and bury this issue as fast as possible is my guess.

Then expect us to forget, that when it mattered NO political party stood up for the rights of women.

They Tories will stop self id in the basis of a lack of popularity- not because they give a shit one way or the other.

This still isn't over.

The TRA's will continue to push and we need to hold the line protecting women's rights.

I've gone full TERF and done a massive rant on FB about it.

Support for the TRA's is really falling away.

•KatVonGulag• as more people speak out and with Jo Brand this evening and the attack on Janice, I wonder if some of these virtue signalling idiots like GG and YHA will backtrack.

This whole thing is smelling so fucking rank I think they are going to back away.

TRA will get more desperate and abusive as the tide is turning and they are masters of own goalingness

Is the statement an illustration of the Penny (Mordaunt) dropping?

I used to work at Reading University many years ago.

In my day, it was said the quickest way to clear the SU bar was when the Philosophy students started talking

They literally say in the consultation document that this consultation is about how to make it easier for trans people to get legal recognition. Its very purpose is to make it easier: the only question is how.

Thanks to those pointing out the lies in more detail.

Powerful people being mislead
Or powerful people trying to score points by lying.

Has anyone emailed the girl guides?

Penny Mordaunt barefaced lied (or was thick as mince over) Turkey and EU entry, on TV. So she could be equally duplicitous (or thick) about this, presumably.

She has a degree in Philosophy from Reading University, apparently.

The YHA is already Misusing the Equality Act to allow self ID.

Everyone is too scared ever to question it.
It is already happening and they don't give a shit

at the OP quoting government stating ‘We have always made clear that any reform of the Gender Recognition Act will not change the exceptions under the Equality Act that allow provision for single and separate sex spaces’

OK fine.. but to my understanding at least, they haven’t been accurately representing those provisions thus far.

Sorry to recycle posts from this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393523-Reporting-problems-with-the-GRA-consultation
But:

^^ this thread examines some of the stuff they have said about the Equality Act elsewhere in the consultation and accompanying documents.

Personally I was very confused by the ‘factsheet’ provided to accompany this impartial government consultation which contains questionable statements including that:

’There will be no change to the provision of women-only spaces and services’
The Government is clear that there will be no change to the Equality Act 2010, which allows service providers to offer separate services to males and females, or to one sex only, subject to certain criteria. These services can treat people with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment differently, or exclude them completely, but only where the action taken is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Importantly, a service provider’s starting point should be to treat a trans person in the gender they identify with, and to allow them to access services for that gender unless by doing so they would be unable to provide that service to other service users. This means it can’t be a blanket ban, or done on a whim. It has to be for a real reason, on a case by case basis. For example a female only domestic violence refuge may provide a separate service to a trans woman if it can be shown there is a detriment to other service users from including the trans woman as part of the regular service. If they then have to exclude that trans person, they ought to consider what alternatives they can offer to the trans person. This has been the law since 2010 and will not change’.

This is wrong surely. See my bolding. They have misrepresented how the equality Act works, from what my understanding of it is (I’m not a lawyer- hopefully someone can correct if I have this wrong).

My understanding is: You CAN have blanket bans for men in women’s spaces. You do NOT have to take as the starting point that he IS a woman. You do NOT have to consider the man in that equation as though he was a woman because he is NOT a woman. You do NOT have to offer him an alternative service, because you are a service provider for women. The standard for not offering him that service is NOT that doing so would be impossible for you to do, but that doing so would massively compromise the service for the intended users, ie WOMEN.

This fact sheet is surely misrepresenting the Equality Act?

It’s here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/721642/GEO-LGBT-factsheet.pdf

Liar, Liar, pants on fire.

The statement claims that the GRA reforms are a blank canvas with no pre-conceived ideas of a way forward?

Are you kidding me? Let's take a look at some evidence that contradicts the statement, shall we?

The Parliamentary Committee took (biased, unscientific and dubious) evidence and produced a set of 36 or more (?) recommendations for changes to the law and policies.

Meanwhile, the government and EHRC was introducing self i/d in anticipation of implementation of the recommendations from Maria Miller's mob.

There has been silence about the barriers and obstructions placed in the way of women meeting to discuss the GRA reforms. Penny Mordaunt went as far as to say that "both sides" were guilty of intimidation and threats. That, too, was a lie and a smear - beautifully exposed by Andrew Gilligan and the Times.

The statement is an insult to the organisations and individuals who have battled to get the government to listen before making a huge mistake.

If the might of the UK government can't keep women's prisons single-sex (and that is even without self-ID) then how exactly is Mandy's Waxing Parlour on the High Street supposed to manage it?

Good question