The Times - Mordaunt faces backlash from MPs re Trans reform

Excellent comments under the article. The narrative has shifted dramatically in the last few months and finally it seems that the general public 'get it'.

And I know I've mentioned it before on here but the comments under the Stonewall petition seem to me to reflect one of the biggest shifts in opinions. So many lesbians, gay men, transsexuals et al commenting respectfully but clearly about the damage Stonewall are doing:
www.ipetitions.com/petition/dear-stonewall-please-reconsider-your-approach

The 'wrong side of history' is becoming a very crowded place .

One important figure missing from those stats is how many MPs took part in the survey. Because there are 315 Tory Mps, so if they all answered it, 28 of them form that 9% in favour, and 157 have been contacted by constituents.

If only 15 responded, that's 1 person in favour and only 7 who've been contacted. Pretty sure we've covered more than 7 between us here, though. We need the actual number of responses to make sense of the percentages. The article suggests there were lots of respondents and this is now a big thing...i guess the proof will be in how many turn up to the session this week.

Fermats, my honest answer is I have no idea.

Traditionally an outsider or under dog wins a Tory Party Leadership contest. Mainly cos the favourites get bogged down in the process of stabbing each other in the back.

The next leadership contest is likely to be characteristed by trying to block candidates who are seen as ultras and whilst they have the grass roots support are pretty toxic to the public. There's already an 'anybody but Boris' movement. There is also a group ready to block anyone perceived as a remainer too. (Which is why you are seeing Hunt and Javid doing a lot of tough talk and bigging up their leave credentials)

That leaves the field open for other players to make some tactical moves to get their faction to 'block' someone else in return for support later on in the process.

The Tory party's has two real tensions going on at the moment - being pro-leave and being pro-liberal. In order to win an election they have to have broad appeal to win over the right of the party as well as retaining and reconnecting with the One Nation Tories.

That actually would put Mordaunt in a relatively strong position with being a leaver and also apparently framing herself as being more woke than most of the rest of the right of the party. Plus with being a woman, she may have more appeal to women voters which has been a problem for a party in recent years. Ironically she's picked a woke subject that is totally at odds with that potential appeal though! So how big the trans thing blows up to be, is a big deal for her in terms of her own personal political chances.

If I'm honest though, I don't think Mordaunt is a serious player right now. I suspect the party will go for another male leader after May. It fits more for the rising desire for a 'strong leader' and frankly that stereotype is going to work against all female candidates. May's ineptitude hurts other women in the party I fear. She was set up as the glasscliff for the benefit of the men in the party.

But I also don't rule Mordaunt out completely, because the calibre of all the options on the table is dreadful. It will depend on just how brutual the contest is.

I was unsuprised by May getting the job last time, but I'm not ready to put money on anyone yet for the next contest. Politics are far too volitile right now. How the next month plays out is beyond anyone's prediction skills.

‘Getting ahead of the law’ is exactly what I was pointing out to the MP I work for.

Polling- all the polling companies pay MPs to complete surveys. Not all MPs do them - it’s personal choice whether they do or not.

Penny Mordaunt- she’s a brexiteer, and there are some people in the Tory party who think they must have a brexiter as the next PM as TM was remain. So they’re looking round for a brexit person who is not Boris.
Yes- she’s not been a top level cabinet person, but that means she hasn’t had the chance to annoy people (think Michael gove or Jeremy hunt)
And look what happened last time the tories has a leadership election. Lots of random people popped up as contenders. If nothing else, it means they might get offered a big job by a new PM.

And I agree about the civil service & equalities stuff. She will have been given women & equalities- and then basically told ‘this is the plan’. She was not the instigator of the GRA consultation.

Victoria Atkins seems quite sensible in the department.

Let's not forget: even if the government does decide to row back on self-declaration, the areas where organisations and institutions have been busily getting ahead of the law are legion.

We have years of work ahead of us, wims.

Thank fucking god, if true.

It's about time this madness stopped. It is madness. Men cannot just "be" women.

Comment from Gerry on that article echoes what we have all been saying whenever James Kirkup writes an article and includes a bit clearly intended to prod MP to speak up:

It's no longer acceptable for MPs to be privately crying on James Kirkup's shoulder (no disrespect to James) about how they don't agree with self-ID either but they're scared to say so.

They have all been briefed and aided by (supposedly) an independent civil service.

There are serious questions to be asked about the ‘independence’ of some members of the civil service in relation to this.

WichBitch yes I agree. There seems to be a lack of decent, intelligent and principled politicians at a senior level - or I could just be getting cynical. There seems to be a critical mass at the moment and hopefullly it is just in time.

It goes WAYYYYYYYY beyond that and it goes right to the heart of democracy and liberal enlightenment (law/order and research) over authoritarian tendancy and a forced set of beliefs at any cost.

I'm a Conservative member and she won't have my vote. Schmoozing with Stonewall and then refusing to meet FP4W and WPUK? I don't think so.

I had a rant about her to my Tory MP last weekend. Haven't heard back from him but maybe he was listening. Every little helps.

That’s motivation for me at least to contact my own MP
www.writetothem.com

I assume everyone from MP and journalists to Millwall Football Club and the Metro will have been astonished by the bullying and sheer nastiness. They almost got away with it, though I am still not really sure who ‘they’ are and how it happened.

Let’s hope common sense prevails, and that one longer term outcome is that people generally are more vigilant about free speech. There have been some odd allies. Who thought we would be cheering Birds Eye and Northern Irish bakers. We don’t need to agree but we need to be able to debate.

FWIW Penny Maudant is considered ambitious but not very bright. It’s now clear she is politically flat footed. Hopefully her career has stalled.

Equalities Ministers come and go. The one constant feature is the civil service.

It was the civil service who produced an action plan for transgender equality and handed it to an Equalities Minister in 2010. Trans equality wasn't a priority for the Minister, but she was flattered to think that the civil servants had anticipated what a switched on person she was - so she went for it.

It sounds like every single Equalities Minister comes out with the same claptrap through the years. They have all been uttterly convinced that they will be on the right side of history and champions of LBGT. They have all been briefed and aided by (supposedly) an independent civil service.

One day, someone will write the book and make Freedom of Information enquiries about what goes on in that department, and its relationship with pro-trans lobby groups.

RedToothBrush - I totally agree.

There's a reason why Justice (a woman) is traditionally portrayed as blindfolded - because the idea is that the law is applied even-handedly to everyone, not through playing favourites to the people perceived as nice. Justice is about fairness, not niceness.

On a side note - you usually have your finger on the political pulse. Do you think Mordaunt is a genuine contender? My gut instinct is "not in a thousand years" - she has held no major cabinet position and is a complete outsider. I can't see her making it through a ballot of MPs to the final two, and I certainly don't see her being elected by the rank-and-file membership The only way she could end up there is if they go for anohter "glass cliff" appointment.

How do I find the comments, please? I scroll all the way down and can't see them.

I’ve written to my Conservative MP and had a cut and paste reply back.
We must all be inclusive Blah blah, I have no idea what he really thinks.
This has encouraged me to contact him again and express myself more forcefully this time

Share token here:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-rebel-over-trans-law-change-2ht0z2v50?shareToken=f02e4d4035e9c9ed1127de9492941fd7

I think you've nailed it there Popchyk.

Politicians are starting to realise there is more at stake than simply trans rights / womens rights.

It goes WAYYYYYYYY beyond that and it goes right to the heart of democracy and liberal enlightenment (law/order and research) over authoritarian tendancy and a forced set of beliefs at any cost.

'Being nice' sometimes is lazy and harmful in the long run, and in terms of the bigger picture. Doing hard stuff can protect EVERYONE in some way.

What is at stake is more than most people realise.

That's a very heartening article. Agree completely CallingDannyBoy. However, given that MPs are paid to represent the interests of the electorate it is utterly disgraceful that they've chosen to keep quiet about their concerns for so long. If you don't have the courage of your convictions you are not up to the job of representation at this level.

Stats from the article (anyone know where the poll itself can be found, it’s not on the ComRes website)?

• 9% of Tories back self-declaration without a doctor
• 69% (of Tories) opposed
• 54% of Tories oppose transgender women getting all the same legal rights as those born female.
• Eight out of 10 say they are worried by the number of children wanting to change their gender
• 56% are opposed to puberty-blocking drugs being administered. - 63% of Tories fearful of speaking out after examples of campaigners branding those who question the plans “transphobic”
• 67% of MPs of all stripes are fearful of the effect the planned changes will have on women’s changing rooms and refuges.
• Half (of all MPs) have been contacted by members of the public concerned at the proposals.

Would be interesting to see the whole poll, obviously this article is focusing on Tory party politics. What do other MPs think? Those are some strong numbers though nevertheless.

It does stand out that (from our point of view) only half of MPs have been contacted by constituents. That’s motivation for me at least to contact my own MP, I’d been putting it off and figured she’d probably already been contacted and it was fairly pointless (Labour). But if half of MPs haven’t been bugged about this yet, I’ll get on it!

I am intrigued. Why do they think Mordaunt is going to the be the next leader?

They don’t necessarily, they just think that she’d like to be - and is considering running in any leadership election.

She won’t make PM without a clear reassurance she can tell the difference between males and females, and a strong reassurance that the law and society need to be able to do so too.

Please let this survey give the MPs the courage to speak up, knowing most of their colleagues agree with them.