Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

I'm allergic to cats.

Am I going to be allergic to someone who's had extensive surgery to have some cat like features added to their body and enjoys hunting mice and purring?

But how would female prisoners feel about sharing a cell with someone that looked, and possibly acted, like a man but who you would all consider to be a woman?

This sort of statement fucks me right off. Proponents of transgenderism actually have the blasted cheek to use transgenderism and the disadvantages it gives women, as a gotcha for women.

It's unbelievable.

Women trying to escape a shit situation as a woman, used to further criticise women.

Just fuck off.

The rule needs to be if born male you are incarcerated in the male estate.

In exactly which prison is Dennehy incarcerated?

Still whataboutery. Women say no to sharing with strange penises. Now off you go and find a respectful solution that respects a woman's boundaries and right to say no

It isn't whataboutery.

There are 2 aspects to this situation - trans men and trans women.

I am assuming that whatever is decided about 1 will also apply to the other.

So if you campaign for trans women to be housed in male prisons because they were born male then a natural consequence will be that trans men will be housed in female prisons.

I don't see that a vulnerable female prisoner, who for whatever reason feels unable to be in close proximity to a man, will feel comfortable sharing a cell with a person that looms exactly like a man but just doesn't have a penis.

I think just be careful what you argue for.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly

I've seen it on a couple of threads. My "threads I'm following" has been cleared since the strange happenings a couple of days ago so I'm not sure that I can find it.

The study was interesting though.

Nope BrownPaperTeddy

Still whataboutery. Women say no to sharing with strange penises. Now off you go and find a respectful solution that respects a woman's boundaries and right to say no

I say the same to extreme TRAs as I do to extreme feminists. If your cause causes you not to care who else gets hurt you've gone too far.

I really doubt you said that to any TRA. And they didn't call you a [redacted] not sure what terms are appropriate now.
If you think that we are giving you a hard time, I just get they did worse.

There are no violent females in the male estate. Joanna Dennehy is in isolation. On a female estate.

For me this is a big flaw in the argument. If you succeed in banning trans women from female spaces then trans men will be included in female spaces and I don't see how that accommodates vulnerable women.

Not if you’re advocating for a 3rd space. Which I am, and always have been.

Actually, I'm not sure, on a closer look, that they are.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HM_Prison_Low_Newton

It looks as though there was a period during which high risk female prisoners were held in men's prisons, then Low Newton was adapted to become the UK's only high security women's prison.

I wonder how they feel about men with penises being housed with them? Oh, we don't know, do we? because they weren't fucking consulted.

Sorry, I thought this was the main thrust of the argument? That vulnerable women prisoners would be affected by male bodied people in cells with them?

Johanna Dennehy is in a female estate. She is a serial killer of males.

She is a violent person. Perhaps she should be put into the male estate?

YeTalkShiteHen

I just don't think it is as simple as that though.

It's simple if your aim is to prevent trans women from accessing female spaces. But if the aim is to create systems that work then I think it is more subtle than that.

So if we look at the argument that vulnerable women would be affected by having to share their space with a trans woman (male bodied person) which I don't disagree with tbh surely they will also be affected by sharing the space with a person that appears to be male ie facial hair, deep voice, mannerisms etc but is actually a trans man (so born female)?

For me this is a big flaw in the argument. If you succeed in banning trans women from female spaces then trans men will be included in female spaces and I don't see how that accommodates vulnerable women.

One also needs to bear in mind that there are plans in progress to ensure that women [adult females] are not incarcerated in future except for the most serious of crimes.

They are, I believe, but in isolation, because there are no category A women's prisons.

If self-ID goes through I suppose society may have to build a specialist cat A women sex offenders' prison. Which would be quite amusing. Transition a la Karen White hoping for a pool of captive victims, find yourself banged up with a load of other be-penised wannabe Karens.

As a matter of interest - why are violent women housed in the male estate?

There are no violent women as yet housed in the male estate.

it doesn't matter what women say - we're all wrong / transphobic / uncaring in the eyes of the anti women / centring men in feminism brigade. It's exhausting and as heresyandwitchcraft has so helpfully pointed out:
it's for the males with dysphoria to solve for themselves. Give them their own space and they can decide what to do with "true trans," "fake trans," Karen White and Ian Huntley. None of them are female so none of them should be allowed in the female space. It's a blanket NO. NO to every male

So away with all your tedious 'whataboutery'. Women say no. We have our boundaries and they do not include sharing anything with strangers with a penis. Go and find your own solutions for the problems that you have created.
NO NO NO

BrownPaperTeddy "As a matter of interest - why are violent women housed in the male estate?

Why is there no provision in the female estate?"

The answer is very simple .. the staff in the male estate are more highly trained to deal with violent inmates.

But how would female prisoners feel about sharing a cell with someone that looked, and possibly acted, like a man but who you would all consider to be a woman?

I wonder how they feel about men with penises being housed with them? Oh, we don't know, do we? because they weren't fucking consulted.

How does a third space directly harm transwomen?

It doesn't.

As a matter of interest - why are violent women housed in the male estate?

Are they?

BrownPaperTeddy "Well yes, exactly. I think a 3rd space is vital."

Exactly so .. a wing for MtF and a wing for FtM.

It would be interesting. Particularly as posters on other threads have said how studies have shown that the effect of testosterone actually causes trans men to offend at similar rates as natal men

I am here a lot and have never seen anyone say that

linky?

As a matter of interest - why are violent women housed in the male estate?

Why is there no provision in the female estate?

Certainly not an argument for trans men are women, as many of you appear to be arguing.

For me, as an autistic woman, I find all this very complicated and distressing tbh.

It really, for me personally, is as simple as a woman is a woman and a man is a man. A trans woman is a trans woman and a trans man is a trans man.

The rest is just noise.